Don’t get mad, get unstuck – with our crystal-clear guide on how to complain about PayPal in the UK
**Update August 15th 2010**
Has PayPal suspended your account and demanded proof of identity that appears to be almost impossible to supply? The good news is that you’re not alone. Please scroll down to read recent comments from other people in this situation, and consider trying this page of numbers and postal addresses if you need to get through to a real live person!
The bad news is that PayPal appears to have become less, rather than more, contactable since I first posted about it a couple of years ago.
It now seems – to all intents and purposes – to be entirely unrestricted and unaccountable to anything or anybody, least of all its customers who simply cannot get into satisfactory communication with PayPal.
*** Original post ****
In the interests of positive dispute resolution, a stress-free world and a better service and experience for all (including PayPal) here is our step-by-step guide to complaining about PayPal.
Important notes:
a) Despite being registered as a bank in Luxembourg, PayPal IS regulated by the Financial Services Authority because it falls within certain categories of activity in the UK.
b) FSA have power to regulate PayPal but NOT to deal with individual complaints. The areas of ‘regulatable’ activity are listed here. While it is outside of the FSA’s jurisdiction to talk to you about individual complaints, the FSA are happy to hear from you if PayPal does not perform to the FSA guidelines.
For example: FSA expects PayPal to adhere to its guidelines on dispute resolution – one of which is that PayPal are obliged to ‘make it easy’ for you to contact them throughout the process. If you feel that PayPal are in contravention of that guideline, please bring this to the FSA’s attention. (Please be clear about the distinction between complaining about breach of FSA guidelines and complaining about your issue.)
c) The Financial Ombudsman Service is the place to complain about your individual issue with PayPal if it has not been resolved within the 8 week period. You can download the complaint form here. If the FOS feels there are sufficient grounds and the issue is within their jurisdiction, they may take up the issue with PayPal, keeping you informed of what they are / aren’t doing along the way. If they think you have a case, their goal will be to restore you to the situation you were in before the problem arose.
So, here’s what you do:
1. Raise your complaint with PayPal in writing (email or hardcopy)
2. Give PayPal 8 weeks to respond / resolve the dispute with you
3. If after 8 weeks, you’re not satisfied, then do the following:
(i) Download a complaint form from FOS and send it to them with all accompanying documentation
(ii) Check this list of areas of business activity (more detail available from the FSA handbooks section) that are regulated by FSA. If you feel that PayPal have acted outside of the guidelines that the FSA impose on these areas of activity, then bring that to the attention of the FSA in writing.
If you follow the 3 steps above (all of them!) you will achieve the following:
1) You will bring to the Financial Ombudsman’s attention just how many unhappy PayPal customers there are out there.
2) You may achieve satisfactory resolution of your issue with the support of the Financial Ombudsman service.
3) You will go a long way to calling PayPal to account with the Financial Services Authority if and where it needs calling to account.
It’s revealing that the Financial Ombudsman Service person I spoke to this morning had never heard of ‘PayPal Buyer Dispute’. If those of you who’ve fallen victim to this scam follow the above 3 steps you can bet he soon will.
Thank you to the FSA and the FOS for their time and information this morning.
[...] Authority if you’re fed up with the service you’re getting from PayPal. Here’s a step-by-step guide to complaining about [...]
Pay pal assured me funds owing to me were paid into my account. Upon finding out these were not paid in, a trace by pay pal was raised. I have telephoned pay pal on numerous occasions and complied with everything they have asked but they are withholding my money despite the fact they agree it is owed to me. This has been going on since february and I am getting no where fast, I am seeking advise and support please as to how I can get the money ( £500.00 which is owed to me.
Hi Karen – as you know, I can’t give you legal advice about PayPal but if you read the post (above) carefully you’ll at least find a start point to bring PayPal’s actions to the attention of the FSA and the FOS.
A quick web search reveals an astonishingly high number of very angry people who feel that PayPal have acted in unacceptable ways.
Don’t forget that as you plod onwards with your quest! You’re not alone. Problem is that with this internet era, it seems almost impossible for individuals to make organisations accountable for their actions.
Best of luck!
we need money back for this item
ref;200324983669
price $129.94( )£90.94
or if you can send me a boots but size 7 or 8 uk thanks
let me know what do you think to do
thanks clive
Clive, if I had boots I’d send you some as a special prize for not reading the thread properly
I’m not PayPal lols.
But good luck trying to get your money back. Judging by your comment, I think you’ll need it.
Hi,
I have the same problem with them. They have suspended my account with over £500 in it which I desperatley need. They have asked me for everything from passport photo to proof of delivery on an item which not only have I faxed but also uploaded. Still not enough for them. Reading from other cases looks like it can take up to 180 days to retrieve your money which is disgusting as they earn interest.
Paypal froze my account and it is impossible to speak send emails to anyone. I have never been so frustrated in my life. How in gods name can you get through to these people.
How to get through to them? Via social media, Richard. My ability to comment in social media played a part in Amazon.co.uk solving a problem for me quickly yesterday, I’m sure. (see http://www.mukaumedia.co.uk/amazoncouk-customer-service-phone-number-reputation-boost/)
Mind you – for someone so angry at PayPal it seems a bit odd that you put a link to eBay (which owns PayPal) on your name when adding this comment.
Paypal have just frozen my account too for no reason that I can determine. I sell information products and apparently one of my sites is in breach of their acceptible use policy.
Trouble is, I have no idea why it has breached the policy and no one at paypal can tell me why. The AUP department don’t speak to people on the telephone and don’t read emails either – they just send back copy and paste replies that make it blantantly obvious they don’t read the emails.
I’ve started the ball rolling with the above, but this is my sole source of income and without access to the money in my paypal account my family are seriously screwed.
I’ve been defrauded by a seller whom I paid through PayPal, who have ‘resolved’ the dispute in my favour but say they cannot recover the £549 owed. Yet the vendor still trades, using PayPal checkout. How can I enforce them to recover money when it goes through the vendor’s account?
Joe.
Hi Joe, that’s outrageous! If PayPal don’t answer your complaint, take it through those steps I outlined. Boring and frustrating though they are, somebody has to keep shouting until the FSA or FOS listens.
When this kind of thing happens to you, you think “No, people surely can’t get away with this in 2009..??” but they clearly can. Why? Because eventually, you’ll go away.
Nobody wants the trouble – and nobody cares about fairness or standards. What they want (government, FSA, FOS included) is a quiet life. The only way you get anything done is by rattling the cage. The louder and the more visible, the better.
Good luck!
I’ve been having a dispute with PayPal now since 20th July 2009, i got scammed out of £195.00 I paid by credit card through PayPal, i sent the information needed through the notes field in the transaction. Now PayPal say because i didn’t use the “ebay items” button for paying the seller i completed a transaction outside of Ebay.
I bought a World of Warcraft account which is classed as a tangible item i think. the seller said that the account in question had been hacked over the weekend but yet only told me the day he was sending the details to me.
I checked the account and was not as described so i asked for a refund from the seller which he agreed to, he took ages to reply and still no money so i had to open a dispute in PayPal, i escalated the claim as there was no communication from the seller and PayPal closed the case straight away saying there was nothing they could do.
My credit card company dont want to know as they say i waiver my rights by paying through PayPal and are therefore not covered by section 75 of the credit act (i think)
I have all the evidence needed to show that this is a case of fraud and that i should get my money back but PayPal don’t want to know, it is an absolute joke and the person that conned me is still selling on Ebay which is even more frustrating.
I have been in contact with the local police, consumer direct, citizens advice, PayPal, Ebay and my credit card company and now i’m at a dead end on trying to get my money back so this is my last resort realy, any advice?
Sorry about the long message but it seems i’ve been through hell and back and by the sounds of it i’m not the only one
No, Aaron – you’re not the only one. What happened to the idea that the internet would create powerful groups of people able to challenge the big powerful organisations that don’t listen? Hmmm? The thing that pisses me off about things like PayPal is that, far from being more accountable, they (and all other big businesses) seem to be less accountable in this online social media era.
I haven’t found ANYONE who has had satisfaction with PayPal from these kind of situations.
It seems in the big ol’ rush to have broadband and all things e-commerce, we’ve er..forgotten (or couldn’t be bothered) to put in place any controls. I for one expect it to get worse.
My company recently spent £1500 on an appallingly bad Club Class flight for me with BA. Could they give a toss about my letter of complaint? Of course not. All people like us can do now is peck away at them with little blogs like this.
So, to come full circle: any advice for you? FSA? Hmm. Aren’t they about to vanish entirely anyway? Pfff. FOS? You could try making noise there. Go to the PayPal sucks-type pages and get a PayPal sucks sticker for your website for starters. And keep telling this story wherever you can – and wherever people go looking for Ebay / PayPal horror stories. It would be nice to imagine a politician or two having even the slightest concern about how these players operate but politicians are fire-fighting in a recession so this kind of thing is WAY down on their priority lists (as you in your job – judging by your email address – know first hand).
Excellent, helpful guide. This morning, PayPal informed me by cut-and-paste email that a complaint I had made against an overseas seller who had taken my money but not delivered any goods, was ‘not resolved in your favor’ because the transaction involved ‘virtual goods’. An arbitrary and unjust decision. I am now escalating my complaint via your guide. Thanks!
Thanks, Alex – hope it helps, although it’s a bit old now and by the sound of things that FSA is on its way out.
Either way, keep up the shouting!
I tried to make a transaction using paypal on 11th september, but the transaction was stopped.They told me my cash had been refunded but it had not.When i tried to make another transaction the same thing happened again, leaving my bank account £262 overdrawn.
It is now 28th september and today i have got some of my money back after 17 days when i didn’t even make a purchase in the first place.
They seem to think that is ok.I hope the financial Ombudsman and Watchdog will disagree!
Sold an item through eBay, packaged and sent it, but buyer hasn’t heard of postal strike lodged a complaint about non receipt of goods with paypal who helped themselves, sorry paypal speak “placed” £35 of my money. Then told me to talk to the buyer. The transaction earned paypal £1.86p what exactly do they do for their money????? As my paypla account is -ve can no longer buy things off eBay. I really wish there was an alternative!!!!
I too have been f****d over for £480.00. I bought tickets from a seller in March 09. Then the artist sadly passed away in June 09.The seller said he would refund my £480.00, but then, siprisingly, dissapeared and wouldn’t answer my e-mails anymore. I got onto paypal, this was back in July/August, I never got any updates to say what was happening,so i hounded them. They got back to me, assuring me that they were dealing with my case and there were many complaints like my own,asking me to be patient. They said they would keep me updated. Now after all this time, they said they can’t do anything because i didn’t report it within the 45 day complaints thingy. God, its rediculous and just like talking to a bloody brick wall. I don’t know what to do apart from scream, they are totally useless.
Emily, sorry to hear that. Not knowing anything about gigs and promoters etc, I’m just wondering what obligation the seller had to refund tickets in the event of a performer dying? Is there a standard Pay Pal policy on it? Either way, you’re right – contacting them can be utterly infuriating. I gave up – I never want anything to do with them again if I can help it. It was a complete waste of my life spent trying to explain the nuances of a situation to someone in what was obviously their second language.
I know that doesn’t help you much. Seems like an absence of customer service / satisfaction no longer matters in virtual online monopolies like Pay Pal. All you can do is take social media revenge. Blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other social and viral media are the way to go if the traditional regulators aren’t interested.
All in all, though, there will come a point where you’ll be ready to say ‘Look, it’s worth £480 to let this go’. Believe me, you’ll get there. Then, you’ll either forget it and just carry on using PayPal (after all, what option have you really got?) or – like me – you’ll never touch them again. Either way, they don’t care.
In my experience, these various ‘ombudsman’ type organisations such as the FSA are just toothless tigers, set up to make it ‘appear’ that there is a body for ‘Joe Soap’ to turn to for help.
They are inevitably under-resourced & consequently staffed by people with little ability or interest.I have recently had similar problems with PayPal as those posted above & have concluded that the purpose of, so called, help lines are there to shield management & deflect problems rather than help to resolve them.
Sometimes it can helps by being a ’squeaky wheel’& complaining from the top down.In case it may help someone. PayPal (UK) Ltd full details including names & addresses of MD & Financial directors can be found at http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk Company No:04568033.Good Luck!
[...] did that, and posted this step by step guide to complaining about PayPal in the [...]
I have writen to PayPal since: 24-04-2009, Asking them to update My PayPal Account Details to My New Legal Name,
When I changed it on: 21-04-2009 in person at: http://www.ukdps.co.uk/ContactUs.html
But PayPal still haven’t updated My PayPal Account Details to My New Legal Name,
Even when I sent them a Water Marked Ceritfied Deed Poll Name Of Change, To There Ireland Offices in May/June 2009,
Yet PayPal are still happy to collect payment from My Credit/Debit Card/s which are both in My legal name since 2009.
I am now seeking help from The Financial Ombudsman Service, As PayPal “DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND UK LAW, WHEN IT COMES TO CHANGING YOUR NAME BY DEED POLL” – http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/9805.htm#deed_polls & http://www.ukdps.co.uk/OtherFAQs.html
Clive, if I had boots I'd send you some as a special prize for not reading the thread properly
I'm not PayPal lols.
But good luck trying to get your money back. Judging by your comment, I think you'll need it.
Paypal have been withholding my funds of £317 since August 2008. I’ve spent a fortune telephoning them and sent numerous complaints but they ignore me.
My mistake was in opening an acct with a nickname. I didn’t read their rules and regs so by the time I’d gone over their limit of so much money in a year they slammed limited account restriction on me.
I’ve sent them proof of my real identity and I even have a paypal acct in my real name linked with a bank account but they still won’t release my funds.
I’m wondering how many other poor suckers they’ve robbed in this way. It’s £300 that I will end up giving up on and I’d love to know how much interest they’ve made over the last 18 months.
Surely the monopolies commission should get involved. Paypal have the internet market sewn up and there’s no real other option for those of us needing to use these payment centres.
Amazing, isn’t it Michelle? I was listening to Radio 4 last week covering a company called -’E-Clear’ which has gone into administration owing something like £150m. I haven’t looked into it in depth yet, but that was also completely and practically un-regulated (as is PayPal for all intents and purposes). What that means in real money is, of course, that these big internet ‘banks’ can do anything they want and get away with it.
The R4 programme concluded with a statement from the FSA (I think – or a government minister, can’t remember which) saying that, in the light of the E-Clear collapse (read: scandal) they’re trying to put in place regulation that might come into force in about 2011 at the earliest.
Big Lols.
They all piss in the same pan, ebay, paypal, politicians alike. Whats worth remembering is that the UK is disgustingly corrupt, governments are ripping the working man off left right and centre, so dont be surprised that ebay and paypal are ripping you off also, they’re all one and the same.
Much as I’d like to disagree with you, Leeds… I find myself curiously unable to
It seems like as soon as you scratch the surface of any big organisation, you find some kind of corruption. Are we all squeaky clean in our own lives? I wonder.
Glad I’m not the only one being shafted by these faceless b@stards. I’ve just been diddled by an ebay buyer who claims not to have received an old mobile phone I flogged him. He agreed on the cheapest postal rate, with no insurance, so even though I have proof of postage, I can’t prove safe delivery – and apparently this is enough for Paypal to steal £25 from me. And they did this 4 days after telling me I had 10 days in which to respond.
Guilty until proven innocent, unfortunately. And not even in the stated timeframe.
This policy is a perfect charter for fraudulent buyers as it is geared in their favour – and I’ve just received a standard letter back in response from Paypal who basically don’t give a monkey’s.
HOW CAN I MAKE A COMPLAINT AGAINST PAYPAL. THEY SEEM TO BE ABOVE THE LAW. THEY CERTAINLY LIKE THEIR GAMES. I AM SENT TO EBAY- TO PAYPAL- TO EBAY- TO PAYPAL- TO EBAY- TO PAYPAL, NEED I GO ON ?
No, Marilyn, you needn’t go on
Personally, I just avoid using PayPal. It’s owned by eBay which is why you just get shunted back and forth. I think that we can pretty much forget the UK attempting any kind of regulation until at least 2011 and beyond. More and more these online giants are so far ahead of the ridiculous dinosaurs of governments that they can pretty much do what they like. They’re making billions and doing what they like while the plodding authorities struggle along, years behind.
It’s a lawless frontier world out there.
I gave up using paypal a long time ago before i got into this trap!
Its funny you should mention Marilyn… they send you back and forth, but when you ask them to check evidence within your ebay account they say “we cant access your ebay account” even though the buyer has left posotive feedback, stated in an ebay message they received the item but then filed a dispute of non received item and paypal cant check your ebay messages for proof!
Theyre the same company when it suits them! For example closing both accounts because theyre “linked” but yet again theyre not when it comes to evidence in your defence!!
Got rid of them a long time ago! Never Again!
Bring a Google auction site and I may consider selling via online auction again! But until then its a no no from me!
Good luck in resolving your issues everyone!
Dave
these are certainly the worst crooks. i cant understand how they are above the law. i get a chargeback today for someone who has left positive feedback.
i win a case for non-supply of goods yet they cant give me compensation as he had no funds in his paypal – yet its them that say you have to wait so long to file a case?
somebody files a chargeback after 4 months – and they pursue me for 350 pounds knowing full well that i have done nothing wrong but wont explain why i have to return 350 pounds to them? so because i wont pay up they restrict my wives account!
i have to shut my shop on ebay and now cant pay the bills! these people do not give a shit and are some of the worst satanic people who even when you get to speak to them sound computerised! absolute bastard filthy excuses for humans
OMG!
Seriously, though. Can you imagine what it would feel like to know that your company inspired this much bad feeling?
But that’s the problem, isn’t it – nobody thinks PayPal is ‘their’ company. Nor, it seems, does ‘anyone’ have to take responsibility for it. That’s the future, folks. Google, PayPal, eBay. All the massive online businesses currently taking over the world.
It’s the real cost of this ‘easy world’ of buying and selling online – and I think we’re really going to regret it one of these days
During seven years on eBay I have had several run-ins with both eBay and PayPal. I won’t bore you with the fine details,but it came to a head with PayPal so I decided to ring the FSA,as at that time, about 4 years ago,Iknew they were responsible for regulating PayPal.
I spoke to an advisor about the fact that PayPal were carrying out a number of malpractices that wouldnt be normally be accepted from a normal bank.
The advisor said..”well they SEEM to be doing alright”.I asked him what he meant,to which he replied,”They seem to be making a lot of money”.
I asked him if this was the criteria by which he assessed if an in institution was operating with integrity and within the rules.I got some sort of waffle and I slammed the phone down.No wonder we are in economic meltdown with those arseholes supervising everything.
LATEST PAYPAL SCAM
They now say they are “supervising all transactions for security purposes so they may take a little longer”.A withdrawal can take 7 days now unless you pay a £5 fee for each withdrawal.
I wonder where the money is sitting for those extra days? tum tee tum
Brett – I totally agree with you. I was interested that this was the second time you’ve posted on this site (with pretty much the same comment).
http://www.mukaumedia.co.uk/paypal-who-regulates/#comment-5854 Did you realise it was the same place (I think we’ve had a facelift since your last post).
How do you get a ‘mail.ru’ email address, btw?
Do not use the financial ombudsman, or any ombudsman for that matter. Once you have had your case accepted by the ombudsman and agree with their rulings, the courts are prohibited from having any power over the decision.
There are plenty of complaints about the various ombudsman services. You can Google Jane Sanders timesonline and you will find that the ombudsman and adjudicators have no need for legal training, need for financial experience, they are given a new labour target of completing 3.5 cases a week to receive their bonuses or go without.
If you want to check the truth of these statements, Google Natalie Ceeney telegraph.
In the second paragraph you will see that the newly appointed ombudsman has no legal background and has never worked in the financial services.
Is this really someone you want in charge of legally untrained adjudicators who only get a days job training,
A legally untrained ombudsman and adjudicator, who have the power to make decisions, that cannot be forcibly overturned in an English court.
Once you are trapped in the ombudsman web, the judicial review can only make recommendations on the legality of the way the ombudsman handled your case. Even then, if the judge rules in your favour, only a recommendation to the ombudsman is possible, the judge cannot force the ombudsman to change course.
You seem to have to learn by bitter experience on the ombudsman matter. I am hoping this will change and more people will know of the dangers.
[HMG your freedom] website is a good place to look for threads posted about repealing the ombudsman rules. The best way is not to use the ombudsman so that they are forced make changes and stop being biased towards big business, councils and utility services.
I would also note that legal community advice is worthless and bailiffs from debt collection companies have no power of forced entry unless being court appointed as a criminal case, as long as you do not let them talk their way over your threshold. just make sure you email the bailiff you will not let them into your property and let them know in that email that you are forwarding this same email to your friends neighbours, as proof of your position which will then also have a date of that statement on the email.
I hope I can at least stop one person from falling into the ombudsman trap. At least read up as much as you can on the ombudsman before you decide whether to use them or not.
Keith – thank you for you comment. Somehow, none of what you’ve written surprises me.
Over the last few months on this site I’ve focused on Touch Local (a rush of unhappy customers complaining earlier this year), Camelot Castle Hotel in Tintagel (run by Scientologists who threatened me over the phone as soon as I blogged about them), Expo Guide (a criminal scam hitting hundreds of thousands of businesses every year), MacIntyre and Dodd Marketing (who rip off naiive old folks by the tens of thousands with their premium-rate ‘prize claim’ phone lines). In addition, we’ve looked at Ebay, PayPal, Amazon and quite a few others who seem to be able to make up the rules as they go along. I’ve pricked holes in a variety of online ‘business directories’ busy suckering money out of gullible people who couldn’t tell the proverbial shit from shinola – from the legal, ‘respectable’ ones to the downright scammy.
The depressing thing that all these internet-based ‘businesses’ have in common is that, for all intents and purposes, they continue to operate outside of the law. Yes, that means that in practice, they can do what the fuck they want (excuse my lapse in decorum) and nobody, not even the so called ‘ombudsmen’ can do a damn thing about it.
All I can conclude is that as a culture (UK 2010) we get what we expect and, unpalatable as this might sound, broadly what we deserve. If these crooks, con-men and cult bullies can carry on their work unchallenged by the forces of civilised law it’s because we allow them to.
On a plus side, however, I’m encouraged to see just how strong the forces of the ‘crowd’ online have become – especially in the fight against scientology, for example. But it appears that these people don’t just sit around posting from the comfort of their bedrooms – they actually turn up in the flesh and make a noise. They put their heads above the parapet because they don’t (won’t) accept how something is.
I share your cynicism about the Ombudsmen, Keith – and good for you posting about the subject. I hope you can make a difference to that one person too. I also wonder when things are going to get so bad that people decide that they’ve had enough being ripped off at every level of our society and demand something better. It hasn’t happened….. yet.
Hi Sam. Thanks for a great site. I have been a member of Ebay since 2002 and have a feedback score of 4282 with 100% positive. I pride myself in that record. I recently purchased an item for £140. A circulation booster for my dad who really needs this.
The item arrived with very bad packaging, the box was burst and bits were missing, including the facing of the machine which covers the electronic display. I contacted the seller who was very rude. I therefore decided to do things the correct way and I contacted Paypal with all the information and escalated to a claim. I then got an email from Paypal asking me to report this incident to the police. I thought there was an error so emailed them back asking them to please elaborate, as I had never come across this before. They again emailed (the usual automated response) saying I had to report to the police. I contacted the central Scotland police station who completely dismissed this and said I had to return the item to the seller, who should then take up the matter with the postal service. They informed me this was definately not something they would deal with. I must say I agreed with them.
I then contacted Paypal with continued replies of “please report this matter with your local police station.” I then phoned them this morning to be told the same thing. Even after I said the police would not entertain this, they said they would then just close the case. I tried to explain to the customer services person that this was ridiculous as I had done nothing wrong and really needed his help. He said he could not change the rules.
I then typed up a note and took it to a different police station and again was told this was not a police matter.
I have returned the item to the seller and followed everything Paypal asked me to do, but now I can’t get them to reply to my emails and I cant afford to continue to phone the international number they supply.
Sorry for the long story but would really appreciate some advice to get my money back so I can buy another unit for my dad. Sigh!
Thank you
Lynne, thanks for your comment – and please, don’t apologise about the length of the post, it’s fine.
What you’re reporting here is unbelievable:
You paid £140 for something that arrived damaged, unfit for purpose. You contacted the seller who didn’t want to know. You then contacted PayPal who said you had to report the issue to the police.
You tried to do this, but the police told you it was a ridiculous waste of their time and that you should return the item to the seller (despite being £140 out of pocket) and hope that – despite not giving a toss before – now, miraculously, he might take the matter up with the postal service to try to get a refund to pass on to you.
You then went back to PayPal who simply repeated their demand for you to report this to the police, stating that if you didn’t, they would simply close the case.
You ended up being forced to send the item back to the seller (overseas) who now won’t reply to your emails at all. And that’s the end of the story – with PayPal exiting out the back door long ago.
Lynne, I’ve been ranting about PayPal (and many other online mega businesses) for a long time now, arguing that they operate, for all intents and purposes, completely outside of the laws of any country. This isn’t some kind of conspiracy theory whinge, this is borne out time and time again by cases like yours. The idea is that eventually, you will give up (millions do) and go away. The crook at the other end will keep your money, PayPal will keep their commission and the only thing that will happen is that the guy you bought from will get a bit of negative feedback. Oh, does PayPal even permit negative feedback any more? Last I heard it didn’t.
The world will continue turning, you’ll tear your hair out, and nobody will do anything because there isn’t a politician in this country (let alone any other) who even knows how PayPal operates, let alone how to bring it to book on it’s total lack of accountability. The problem is that no national law can control this kind of virtual, global business. The same is true for the international scams I deal with on this site too. No matter how well known they are, nobody can touch them because there’s nothing to touch them with.
If nothing else, you should go to the national UK press / TV media with this story. Find a journalist or documentary film maker who would be willing to tap into some of the thousands of stories like yours. In this country alone, there must be tens of thousands of people who have been robbed either by the seller/buyer in a deal and by PayPal itself (in terms of the commission taken or funds locked away etc). And for PayPal, read ‘eBay’ their parent company. More often than not, each of you sit and rage in isolation, powerless to do anything.
I’m sorry I can’t suggest anything more practical than that because in all my research into this, I’ve never found a single way to make PayPal accountable for anything. This situation will continue until someone – maybe someone like you – finds a way to bring all the isolated cases together in a way that governments simply can’t ignore.
Sam
Some useful advice here thanks. Out of the blue Paypal have asked that I send a copy of my passport (or similar) to pove who I am, and a copy of a uility bill (or similar) to prove my address. However, they have had my bank account and credit card verified for over 6 years and this should be proof enough. Indeed, I think they are in breach of the data protection act in asking, as they simply don’t need those data.
I will follow your steps and complain to FOS and FSA, as paypal make it virtually impossible to complain, with idiots on the phone who lie, and a query/email system that just generates cut and paste answers. I will also lodge the issue with the information commissioner.
I’ll let you know what happens but it will all take months. In the meantime I won’t use paypal which means I can’t sell on ebay. I raised the paypal restriction with ebay, as you have to give paypal as an option in order to sell, and not surprisingly they were not at all helpful. Indeed the rep denied ebay owned paypal and then went onto justify paypal!
Hi Bob – thanks for your comment. I’d absolutely not send a copy of passport and/or utility bill – this sounds way too much like a phishing attempt to me.
Even if it was a genuine email from PayPal, then there’s no reason they should ask for those things. When it comes to challenging PayPal to explain itself (or give back misappropriated money for that matter) most people seem to give up because they simply can’t wait that long to trade. That, in my book, is the thing that gives them full license to do what they want.
I short, they know that the average Joe needs them more than they need the average Joe.
Sam
I thought exactly the same as you so I contacted PayPal to report it. I was shocked to find it is genuine and my account is restricted until I submit the documentation, which I am not going to do. This means I can’t sell on ebay and whilst the account is restricted, i can’t even close it down!
I see a long fight ahead.
Bob
Unbelievable.
Does that mean all / anyone using PayPal is going to be asked to send such documentation? Or is that demand the result of someone else doing something (i.e. flagging you up for some reason)? Or is it triggered by some activity on your part? Given this is PayPal we’re talking about, I suspect we’ll never know. All we do know is that they can do whatever they want.
Do me a favour Bob – let me know how it goes? Keep a summary record of what happens and let’s add it to here. Someone, somewhere, sometime will push the right media buttons with this kind of story and make a big noise.
Sam
My account has been a model of sober, legal, trouble free transaction, and no-one has ever complained. One of my questions to PayPal, which they consistently ignore, is why now, after 6 years of trouble free transactions. The only change to my account was changing some credit card details when a new card was issued on expiry of the registered one.
A friend who trades more frequently than me says that she was asked for similar after a few years, and she complied. I won’t as they are in clear breach of UK Data protection principles.
I will be putting a dossier together and sending it to the Information Commissioner, the FSA and the Ombudsman. I will also be complaning to someone about the restriction on trade through ebay insisting sellers offer paypal.
I will let you have a copy when its all put together in two weeks time.
Bob
I look forward to it Bob – be thorough, and I wish you every success making a big noise. If I can contribute a little volume to that, I surely will.
I’ve been asked to send various documents to paypal to prove that I am not “laundering money” through paypal, because I’ve received a whopping 2500 euros in total through paypal from various writing assignments and other small online jobs (I do a bit of freelance writing and lots of websites pay by paypal).
I have around 300 euro on my paypal account which I suddenly found I cannot withdraw, because my account has been “limited” until I prove my address & ID. I’ve faxed a copy of the first page of my passport through twice and scanned and emailed it twice, but they claim the quality of the scan/fax is “illegible”.
I’ve been asked to fax utility bills as proof of address, but most of my bills are in someone else’s name as I live in a shared house, and all the bills I have faxed are not acceptable for one reason or another. I’m extremely reluctant to fax a bank statement because it’s pretty private information. So whatever I give them is wrong. I’m not a UK resident, but it seems UK Paypal is dealing with other EU paypal accounts too.
After reading this discussion I wonder if I’ll ever get my money!
Hi SR. You and Bob seem to have a similar problem.
Just to make absolutely certain about this: are you saying that your account is actually limited i.e. – going in through your normal login process, you can’t actually access your money? If so (as Bob seems to also be saying) then this is a pretty dire situation for you.
But the problem is this: in a context where there is no effective competition and a tie-up between eBay and PayPal on top of that, PayPal can afford to lose tens even hundreds of thousands of you, screaming, foaming at the mouth, blogging, tweeting and pulling your hair out – because there’s nowhere else for the millions of customers still using PayPal to go, even if they’re doing it dreading the moment that PayPal starts screwing around with their account without warning.
This whole business works on a ’shoal of fish’ mentality: “just so long as it’s not me…” Everybody just keeps on doing what they’ve always been doing and nothing changes.
I don’t have a PayPal account.
I bought with my Gold Credit Card from a website that only accepts PayPal.
Transaction went through and I got a PayPal receipt.
Did not receive what I ordered.
When I contacted the supplier and sent a copy of PayPal receipt, I was told some unbelievable story about the money being reversed because of fraud.
I checked my CC account, the money was debited, sent to the supplier’s PayPal account, and certainly not reversed.
The supplier won’t respond any more to my emails.
It’s a small amount but I don’t want them to get away with it.
It’s theft.
If I nicked goods to that amount in Tesco, I would be prosecuted.
Impossible to contact PayPal as it sends me to a page to open a PayPal account or to their ridiculous limited automated “support”.
Does anyone know a proper email for PayPal so that I can report the supplier for fraud?
Well guys I’ve gt the same problem! paypal restricted account 14th July 2010 and have not provided satisfactory reason…
So far submitted on request
Driving Licence
3 Months Bank Statments
Receipts for products purchased
Proof of delivery for last 5 items shipped
With over £4K locked in the account and rising after 30 days or so I have all but now had to cease trading they now want receipts sent again as “too light” and copies of my P&l
This is just ridiculous!!!
Hi there, just came to pipe up – my situation is almost exactly the same as Bobs’ just above – first flagged for additional verification, then made to change my password, then made to answer some questions, then my account was set for id verification, because I refused to give them bank details or direct debit authority (hahaha as if…).
Going through the motions of verifying my account with them, so I can close it down.
Since then, I found the address to report PayPal violations
aupviolations@paypal.com
They are either utterly useless or a bunch of crooks.
All they do is send an automated form that tells me to log into the account I don’t have ….GRRRRRR….
I emailed back twice and have now received 3 automated forms telling me to log into my account (which I do not have).
I also received an automated form asking me to confirm the email address registered with my PayPal account (which I do not have).
Diabolical.
I am going through exactly the same experience as Charlie, with a similar amount of money tied up. I queried how I had been able to open an account in June without providing all necessary information, the response was basically “well this is how we do it it’s all in our terms and conditions” and progressed as I pushed further to “I am not going to discuss this with you” I asked “do you come under the FSA?” and was told “no”, so said “I notice that your office is not in the UK, presumably this is to avoid coming under FSA rules?” answer “yes”.
Meanwhile, my account was first restricted by PayPal (ie I can’t take money out) on 9th August. I provided what was asked for, it was unrestricted almost instantly and I transferred funds to my bank. Yesterday I discovered that later on the 9th more items were asked for and they supposedly sent an email asking for information, the email did not arrive, I did not know of any problem until logging on yesterday (15th) After speaking to a PayPal employee, and saying we have no ID Card in the UK, and as a sole trader I have no business registration number, I was told the requirement for business registration number would be removed – it has not been.
A phone call today made no progress, my case will be looked at in 24-48 hours is all I can find out.
The current list is:
(a) confirm your credit card
(they have sent a £1 payment to my visa debit card yesterday, when that reaches my account (2-3 days) I have to tell them the reference number
(b) photo ID – I have uploaded via their website a photo of my driving licence with photo ID, but they have not looked at it yet
(c) proof of address – I have uploaded a photo of a bank statement as requested showing my address
(d) check email for additional documentation required – this is dated 9th August, no email has ever been received to explain this.
(e)provide business registration number – both last night and this afternoon I have told the person on the other end of the phone that sole traders do not have a business registration number, the response this afternoon “but you have a business account”, I replied, yes, that is because I am running a business but in the UK only limited companies have a business registration number. When commenting that PayPal seems unaware of the legislative framework in different countries I was surprised to be told that “this office only deals with UK accounts” – because in that case they aren’t listening to what customers must be telling them over and over again – that we have no national ID and only limited companies have registration numbers.
I am going away to re-read their terms and conditions, and wondering whether to stop receiving money as my new business is doing well and money is pouring into the paypal account with around one customer per hour.
Great to hear the business is going well, Dot!
Your first para is gobsmacking. So they’re creating accounts without verifying ID… letting you fill up with money, then freezing your accounts until you provide required information… which they don’t seem to accept. Then?
Anyone have experience of the funds being released after playing this game with them?
I’m trying to figure out what the pay-off is for PayPal doing this… Ease of signing people up, ok, I get that. But freezing funds. What are they earning from that? Do people eventually give up and go away leaving £100, £400, £5000 unretrievable in PayPal’s possession?
Sam:
What they get is balances and cashflow in real money. A little of that goes a long way in the world of virtual finance, and can leverage big returns. You don’t have to keep it for ever to take the profit on a deal.
Hi Sam,
I have now heard from a few other people who have had similar experience and received some tips, in particular from someone who switched to Sage Pay and eventually got their money from PayPal after 8 months. She has passed on to me this link to a page with a list of phone numbers for PayPal contacts -
http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/forum/payment-and-shipping-discussion/54434-paypal-and-ebay-contact-telephone-numbers-reach-humans-list.html
Hi Dot,
S
They went through and did exactly the same thing to me when I started my business acc from a premier private, the trick I found it your business cheque book, for example its no good for them if your acc read j bloggs or dumb stores, it had to read full name trading as full business name or they would except it and then you could leave the reg no. empty. Hope this helps and good luck your going to need it
Dot, that’s an excellent page of contact numbers. I’d like to hear from anyone who gets through on those numbers – especially if you get your problems resolved.
Hi again,
sorry I didn’t reply to your last question Sam but yes, I can login to my paypal account and see my money, but since my account is “limited” I can’t withdraw it or send it to anyone. However, I can still receive money so more money can go in but I can’t get it out!
I scanned and emailed and faxed my passport 4 times and they finally accepted it. I have now been doing the same with my bank statement, which they say they accept as a proof of address, except I just got this email:
“The document provided unfortunately is not considered a proof of address.
Please send us a valid document that proves you live at the address which
is currently registered to your PayPal account.
The document has come through blurred and is illegible as a result. Please
provide us with a new, clearer copy of a document that proves you live at
the address which is currently registered to your PayPal account.
What is a valid proof of address?
We accept:
– Utility bills (phone and broadband services, health insurance, gas,
water, electricity or the like),
– Bank or credit card statements.
– Document has been issued within the last 12 months and is completely
visible.”
So… they do accept bank statements… and then don’t.
I live in Finland and so far I thought that the Paypal office that deals with my case is based in the UK, but from some of the comments above from others I gather it is not? Like Dot, I’m experiencing difficulties in providing the necessary documents because what is considered proof of address in Finland is not in the UK. (We don’t have gas bills. We don’t even cook with gas!!)
Thanks for this site! It helps to hear from others in similar situations. I have actually signed up with Moneybookers, not sure if it is any better but it might be an alternative.
And I just looked at the list of emails and phone numbers provided by Dot – thanks SO much – I’ve just written a letter which I’ll send to all those email addresses and will also send by registered post. I’m reluctant to send my bank statement to random people but it’s my only proof of address that paypal seems to accept, so am contemplating it. I still want to contact the FSA to make a complaint about paypal even though I’m not in the UK. I wonder if it is worth it.
Well believe it or not!!! After sending each document and resending the invoices that were too light I today received this…
“”
We have completed our review, and as you have completed all the requiredsteps, we have restored your account. We would also like to thank you for your patience and cooperation duringthis process.”" Paypal
Yippeee! Don’t give up
Just so you all know, it is a legal requirement for any business involved in “money” transactions to verify the user for both money laundering purpose and also against the HM Treasury Financial Sanctions list.
This includes estate agents, solicitors, financial advisors, banks and anyone involved in financial transactions.
Therefore if Paypal are opening accounts for individuals to trade money through without following these guidelines then they are in breach of UK law including the Prevention of Terrorism Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act.
Tell that to the FSA, and they should be interested then. Especially as last week they fined RBS £5.6m for similar breaches around international money transfers.
Sorry I didn’t get back here before – my PayPal troubles were resolved very fast after they had seen my website, I got a phone call from the USA and we talked things through. Yes they specifically said they had seen my website, don’t know if they followed the link I put to this page.
Co-incidentally, they did not send the promised email to tell me when the restriction was lifted, just as they hadn’t emailed me when they reinstated it.
So what was on my website? I took the PayPal buttons down and put this up:
I am very sorry but I have had to remove the option to pay me by PayPal, as Paypal have “restricted” my account. This means that whilst they are accepting money for payments, they will not allow give me access to it and they are preventing me from transfering money into my bank account and keep asking for a growing list of items to be resolved. This means PayPal are currently keeping all monies paid for YarnMaker through them since 9th August. A web search for other people having problems with PayPal reveals I am not alone – just look at this.
I have spoken to PayPal by phone, last night and this afternoon, and am told that they will look at my case in 24-48 hours and email me with their response. If all is well and the restriction lifted, I will put PayPal buttons back on this site. The earliest this is likely to happen is Wednesday evening (18th August).
I am very sorry for the inconvenience caused. Meanwhile, I will continue to dispatch magazines for which people have paid and PayPal is holding the money.
Update!
Paypal restored my account access today, after I emailed through my bank statement for the 4th time (the same one that had previously been “blurred”, “illegible” or “unacceptable”). I did send an angry email to all the email addresses on the list from that website (see previous post above by Dot). Not sure if it helped or slowed down the process…I’m relieved, yet still angry. It was just a few hundred euro but I’m sure it all adds up on some high interest account, or wherever my money was kept for several weeks.
Good luck everyone. I hope you get your money back. I wish I didn’t have to use Paypal ever again, but I do get some payments for online writing work through Paypal, so I can choose either getting paid via Paypal or not getting paid at all.
I too have many problems with paypal, it seems to me that they hide behind the fact that they are a large company and as such many individuals would find it hard to take them on in terms of costly legal battles.
However, it also occurs to me that one thing that does hurt is bad publicity, now online, sure you can find hundreds of complaints, but if youre like most people, you dont see this until you have had a problem yourself, meaning that online publicity may not be such a problem for paypal. However if we can get extensive news coverage that may be a diffrent matter, as this informs people before or who may be about to use paypal.
So, wondering on an idea to organise a mass protest, physical people getting together in large numbers to show thier outrage, if we could get a whole big bunch of people together that may just get the TV news boys interested to cover the story and expose paypal / ebay to show thier true colours.
Looking to see how many people would turn up if such a protest was organised say in london, maybe even make it bigger and get organised with similar interested people across all major cites around the world to hold an event on a spcific day.
So show of hands anyone?
That would be awesome, Kash. Everyone I speak to has a story of losing money to PayPal. The amounts vary, some small some large but the one thing they all have in common is that the people in the end give up and write off the money, but carry on trading because in most cases they simply can’t afford not to. And that’s why PayPal doesn’t change anything or do anything to be more accountable… because there’s no point. In reality, people have no option.
I’d love to see an anti-PayPal demonstration but there’d be no point aiming it PayPal. PayPal won’t listen because they’re a monopoly – and wherever you find a monopoly it seems you also find terrible customer service and lack of accountability.
If there’s no point aiming a demonstration at PayPal, then who would it be aimed at? Government? Demanding that it regulates PayPal.. or else…or else what?
Since eBay forces people to use PayPal (its own company), would the demonstration be against eBay? What would we be demanding of eBay? Make PayPal better or else.. or else what? We’ll stop using eBay?
Personally, I think the genie is out of the bottle with these mega online businesses. They’ve become effectively uncontrollable and have also given up providing customer service. Until a coalition of governments make controlling these monsters (PayPal, eBay, Google, Amazon and others) important, then those monsters will do the controlling themselves.
Yeah, that’s true, everyone I know has anything to tell about Paypal services. I’m glad that more and more companies and online games start offering another payment options. I use prepaid card called paysafecard for online transactions, there are no hidden fees and there is nothing you can do wrong using it.
I had a Paypal account but I quit, I’m fed up with waiting for ages till the money gets there and back. Argh!
I bought a company recently that trades on eBay. I immediately opened a new Paypal account and jumped through all the hoops in verifying myself.
Then, 4 weeks later, Paypal freeze my account with £3,000 in it because the company I bought the website from have had a reversal of £118 on their old Paypal account, and Paypal and want ME to repay it – I spoke with Sergio at their Dublin call centre and they are basically bullying me into either repaying someone elses debt!
They wont remove my limitation until the amount is cleared.
PAYPAL SUCKS!!! OH FOR A ALTERNATIVE REGULATED SERVICE…