How to complain about paypal in the UK

Comments

1. karen stark says:
   April 25, 2009 at 9:39 am

   Pay pal assured me funds owing to me were paid into my account. Upon finding out these were not paid in, a trace by pay pal was raised. I have telephoned pay pal on numerous occasions and complied with everything they have asked but they are withholding my money despite the fact they agree it is owed to me. This has been going on since february and I am getting no where fast, I am seeking advise and support please as to how I can get the money ( £500.00 which is owed to me.
2. Sam Deeks says:
   April 25, 2009 at 12:28 pm

   Hi Karen – as you know, I can’t give you legal advice about PayPal but if you read the post (above) carefully you’ll at least find a start point to bring PayPal’s actions to the attention of the FSA and the FOS.

   A quick web search reveals an astonishingly high number of very angry people who feel that PayPal have acted in unacceptable ways.

   Don’t forget that as you plod onwards with your quest! You’re not alone. Problem is that with this internet era, it seems almost impossible for individuals to make organisations accountable for their actions.

   Best of luck!
3. clive ngumbu says:
   May 7, 2009 at 5:40 pm

   we need money back for this item
   ref;200324983669
   price $129.94( )£90.94
   or if you can send me a boots but size 7 or 8 uk thanks
   let me know what do you think to do
   thanks clive
4. Sam Deeks says:
   May 8, 2009 at 12:22 am

   Clive, if I had boots I’d send you some as a special prize for not reading the thread properly

   I’m not PayPal lols.

   But good luck trying to get your money back. Judging by your comment, I think you’ll need it.
5. Mauricio says:
   May 11, 2009 at 9:14 pm

   Hi,

   I have the same problem with them. They have suspended my account with over £500 in it which I desperatley need. They have asked me for everything from passport photo to proof of delivery on an item which not only have I faxed but also uploaded. Still not enough for them. Reading from other cases looks like it can take up to 180 days to retrieve your money which is disgusting as they earn interest.
6. Richard Barrett says:
   May 13, 2009 at 8:35 pm

   Paypal froze my account and it is impossible to speak send emails to anyone. I have never been so frustrated in my life. How in gods name can you get through to these people.
7. Sam Deeks says:
   May 14, 2009 at 11:37 am

   How to get through to them? Via social media, Richard. My ability to comment in social media played a part in Amazon.co.uk solving a problem for me quickly yesterday, I’m sure. (see http://www.mukaumedia.co.uk/amazoncouk-customer-service-phone-number-reputation-boost/)

   Mind you – for someone so angry at PayPal it seems a bit odd that you put a link to eBay (which owns PayPal) on your name when adding this comment.

   
8. Jason says:
   August 19, 2009 at 1:06 pm

   Paypal have just frozen my account too for no reason that I can determine. I sell information products and apparently one of my sites is in breach of their acceptible use policy.

   Trouble is, I have no idea why it has breached the policy and no one at paypal can tell me why. The AUP department don’t speak to people on the telephone and don’t read emails either – they just send back copy and paste replies that make it blantantly obvious they don’t read the emails.

   I’ve started the ball rolling with the above, but this is my sole source of income and without access to the money in my paypal account my family are seriously screwed.
9. Joe Sweeney says:
   September 8, 2009 at 9:14 am

   I’ve been defrauded by a seller whom I paid through PayPal, who have ‘resolved’ the dispute in my favour but say they cannot recover the £549 owed. Yet the vendor still trades, using PayPal checkout. How can I enforce them to recover money when it goes through the vendor’s account?

   Joe.
10. Sam Deeks says:
    September 8, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Hi Joe, that’s outrageous! If PayPal don’t answer your complaint, take it through those steps I outlined. Boring and frustrating though they are, somebody has to keep shouting until the FSA or FOS listens.

    When this kind of thing happens to you, you think “No, people surely can’t get away with this in 2009..??” but they clearly can. Why? Because eventually, you’ll go away.

    Nobody wants the trouble – and nobody cares about fairness or standards. What they want (government, FSA, FOS included) is a quiet life. The only way you get anything done is by rattling the cage. The louder and the more visible, the better.

    Good luck!
11. Aaron says:
    September 17, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I’ve been having a dispute with PayPal now since 20th July 2009, i got scammed out of £195.00 I paid by credit card through PayPal, i sent the information needed through the notes field in the transaction. Now PayPal say because i didn’t use the “ebay items” button for paying the seller i completed a transaction outside of Ebay.

    I bought a World of Warcraft account which is classed as a tangible item i think. the seller said that the account in question had been hacked over the weekend but yet only told me the day he was sending the details to me.

    I checked the account and was not as described so i asked for a refund from the seller which he agreed to, he took ages to reply and still no money so i had to open a dispute in PayPal, i escalated the claim as there was no communication from the seller and PayPal closed the case straight away saying there was nothing they could do.

    My credit card company dont want to know as they say i waiver my rights by paying through PayPal and are therefore not covered by section 75 of the credit act (i think)

    I have all the evidence needed to show that this is a case of fraud and that i should get my money back but PayPal don’t want to know, it is an absolute joke and the person that conned me is still selling on Ebay which is even more frustrating.

    I have been in contact with the local police, consumer direct, citizens advice, PayPal, Ebay and my credit card company and now i’m at a dead end on trying to get my money back so this is my last resort realy, any advice?

    Sorry about the long message but it seems i’ve been through hell and back and by the sounds of it i’m not the only one
12. Sam Deeks says:
    September 18, 2009 at 10:11 am

    No, Aaron – you’re not the only one. What happened to the idea that the internet would create powerful groups of people able to challenge the big powerful organisations that don’t listen? Hmmm? The thing that pisses me off about things like PayPal is that, far from being more accountable, they (and all other big businesses) seem to be less accountable in this online social media era.

    I haven’t found ANYONE who has had satisfaction with PayPal from these kind of situations.

    It seems in the big ol’ rush to have broadband and all things e-commerce, we’ve er..forgotten (or couldn’t be bothered) to put in place any controls. I for one expect it to get worse.

    My company recently spent £1500 on an appallingly bad Club Class flight for me with BA. Could they give a toss about my letter of complaint? Of course not. All people like us can do now is peck away at them with little blogs like this.

    So, to come full circle: any advice for you? FSA? Hmm. Aren’t they about to vanish entirely anyway? Pfff. FOS? You could try making noise there. Go to the PayPal sucks-type pages and get a PayPal sucks sticker for your website for starters. And keep telling this story wherever you can – and wherever people go looking for Ebay / PayPal horror stories. It would be nice to imagine a politician or two having even the slightest concern about how these players operate but politicians are fire-fighting in a recession so this kind of thing is WAY down on their priority lists (as you in your job – judging by your email address – know first hand).
13. Alex says:
    September 25, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Excellent, helpful guide. This morning, PayPal informed me by cut-and-paste email that a complaint I had made against an overseas seller who had taken my money but not delivered any goods, was ‘not resolved in your favor’ because the transaction involved ‘virtual goods’. An arbitrary and unjust decision. I am now escalating my complaint via your guide. Thanks!
14. Sam Deeks says:
    September 25, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Thanks, Alex – hope it helps, although it’s a bit old now and by the sound of things that FSA is on its way out.

    Either way, keep up the shouting!
15. Martin Hannaway says:
    September 28, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    I tried to make a transaction using paypal on 11th september, but the transaction was stopped.They told me my cash had been refunded but it had not.When i tried to make another transaction the same thing happened again, leaving my bank account £262 overdrawn.

    It is now 28th september and today i have got some of my money back after 17 days when i didn’t even make a purchase in the first place.

    They seem to think that is ok.I hope the financial Ombudsman and Watchdog will disagree!
16. Peter G says:
    October 20, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Sold an item through eBay, packaged and sent it, but buyer hasn’t heard of postal strike lodged a complaint about non receipt of goods with paypal who helped themselves, sorry paypal speak “placed” £35 of my money. Then told me to talk to the buyer. The transaction earned paypal £1.86p what exactly do they do for their money????? As my paypla account is -ve can no longer buy things off eBay. I really wish there was an alternative!!!!
17. emily says:
    November 23, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    I too have been f****d over for £480.00. I bought tickets from a seller in March 09. Then the artist sadly passed away in June 09.The seller said he would refund my £480.00, but then, siprisingly, dissapeared and wouldn’t answer my e-mails anymore. I got onto paypal, this was back in July/August, I never got any updates to say what was happening,so i hounded them. They got back to me, assuring me that they were dealing with my case and there were many complaints like my own,asking me to be patient. They said they would keep me updated. Now after all this time, they said they can’t do anything because i didn’t report it within the 45 day complaints thingy. God, its rediculous and just like talking to a bloody brick wall. I don’t know what to do apart from scream, they are totally useless.
18. Sam Deeks says:
    November 23, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Emily, sorry to hear that. Not knowing anything about gigs and promoters etc, I’m just wondering what obligation the seller had to refund tickets in the event of a performer dying? Is there a standard Pay Pal policy on it? Either way, you’re right – contacting them can be utterly infuriating. I gave up – I never want anything to do with them again if I can help it. It was a complete waste of my life spent trying to explain the nuances of a situation to someone in what was obviously their second language.

    I know that doesn’t help you much. Seems like an absence of customer service / satisfaction no longer matters in virtual online monopolies like Pay Pal. All you can do is take social media revenge. Blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other social and viral media are the way to go if the traditional regulators aren’t interested.

    All in all, though, there will come a point where you’ll be ready to say ‘Look, it’s worth £480 to let this go’. Believe me, you’ll get there. Then, you’ll either forget it and just carry on using PayPal (after all, what option have you really got?) or – like me – you’ll never touch them again. Either way, they don’t care.
19. MAFRAQ says:
    December 1, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    In my experience, these various ‘ombudsman’ type organisations such as the FSA are just toothless tigers, set up to make it ‘appear’ that there is a body for ‘Joe Soap’ to turn to for help.

    They are inevitably under-resourced & consequently staffed by people with little ability or interest.I have recently had similar problems with PayPal as those posted above & have concluded that the purpose of, so called, help lines are there to shield management & deflect problems rather than help to resolve them.

    Sometimes it can helps by being a ‘squeaky wheel’& complaining from the top down.In case it may help someone. PayPal (UK) Ltd full details including names & addresses of MD & Financial directors can be found at http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk Company No:04568033.Good Luck!
20. Mr. Scott Aron John Reynolds says:
    January 14, 2010 at 1:00 am

    I have writen to PayPal since: 24-04-2009, Asking them to update My PayPal Account Details to My New Legal Name,

    When I changed it on: 21-04-2009 in person at: http://www.ukdps.co.uk/ContactUs.html

    But PayPal still haven’t updated My PayPal Account Details to My New Legal Name,

    Even when I sent them a Water Marked Ceritfied Deed Poll Name Of Change, To There Ireland Offices in May/June 2009,

    Yet PayPal are still happy to collect payment from My Credit/Debit Card/s which are both in My legal name since 2009.

    I am now seeking help from The Financial Ombudsman Service, As PayPal “DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND UK LAW, WHEN IT COMES TO CHANGING YOUR NAME BY DEED POLL” – http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/9805.htm#deed_polls & http://www.ukdps.co.uk/OtherFAQs.html
21. Sam Deeks says:
    January 28, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Clive, if I had boots I'd send you some as a special prize for not reading the thread properly

    I'm not PayPal lols.

    But good luck trying to get your money back. Judging by your comment, I think you'll need it.
22. Michelle Grey says:
    February 18, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Paypal have been withholding my funds of £317 since August 2008. I’ve spent a fortune telephoning them and sent numerous complaints but they ignore me.

    My mistake was in opening an acct with a nickname. I didn’t read their rules and regs so by the time I’d gone over their limit of so much money in a year they slammed limited account restriction on me.

    I’ve sent them proof of my real identity and I even have a paypal acct in my real name linked with a bank account but they still won’t release my funds.

    I’m wondering how many other poor suckers they’ve robbed in this way. It’s £300 that I will end up giving up on and I’d love to know how much interest they’ve made over the last 18 months.

    Surely the monopolies commission should get involved. Paypal have the internet market sewn up and there’s no real other option for those of us needing to use these payment centres.
23. Sam Deeks says:
    February 18, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Amazing, isn’t it Michelle? I was listening to Radio 4 last week covering a company called -’E-Clear’ which has gone into administration owing something like £150m. I haven’t looked into it in depth yet, but that was also completely and practically un-regulated (as is PayPal for all intents and purposes). What that means in real money is, of course, that these big internet ‘banks’ can do anything they want and get away with it.

    The R4 programme concluded with a statement from the FSA (I think – or a government minister, can’t remember which) saying that, in the light of the E-Clear collapse (read: scandal) they’re trying to put in place regulation that might come into force in about 2011 at the earliest.

    Big Lols.
24. leeds says:
    March 3, 2010 at 11:23 am

    They all piss in the same pan, ebay, paypal, politicians alike. Whats worth remembering is that the UK is disgustingly corrupt, governments are ripping the working man off left right and centre, so dont be surprised that ebay and paypal are ripping you off also, they’re all one and the same.
25. Sam Deeks says:
    March 3, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Much as I’d like to disagree with you, Leeds… I find myself curiously unable to It seems like as soon as you scratch the surface of any big organisation, you find some kind of corruption. Are we all squeaky clean in our own lives? I wonder.
26. Stuart Knapman says:
    March 28, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Glad I’m not the only one being shafted by these faceless b@stards. I’ve just been diddled by an ebay buyer who claims not to have received an old mobile phone I flogged him. He agreed on the cheapest postal rate, with no insurance, so even though I have proof of postage, I can’t prove safe delivery – and apparently this is enough for Paypal to steal £25 from me. And they did this 4 days after telling me I had 10 days in which to respond.

    Guilty until proven innocent, unfortunately. And not even in the stated timeframe.

    This policy is a perfect charter for fraudulent buyers as it is geared in their favour – and I’ve just received a standard letter back in response from Paypal who basically don’t give a monkey’s.
27. Marilyn says:
    March 29, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    HOW CAN I MAKE A COMPLAINT AGAINST PAYPAL. THEY SEEM TO BE ABOVE THE LAW. THEY CERTAINLY LIKE THEIR GAMES. I AM SENT TO EBAY- TO PAYPAL- TO EBAY- TO PAYPAL- TO EBAY- TO PAYPAL, NEED I GO ON ?
28. Sam Deeks says:
    March 29, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    No, Marilyn, you needn’t go on Personally, I just avoid using PayPal. It’s owned by eBay which is why you just get shunted back and forth. I think that we can pretty much forget the UK attempting any kind of regulation until at least 2011 and beyond. More and more these online giants are so far ahead of the ridiculous dinosaurs of governments that they can pretty much do what they like. They’re making billions and doing what they like while the plodding authorities struggle along, years behind.

    It’s a lawless frontier world out there.
29. David says:
    April 30, 2010 at 12:08 am

    I gave up using paypal a long time ago before i got into this trap!

    Its funny you should mention Marilyn… they send you back and forth, but when you ask them to check evidence within your ebay account they say “we cant access your ebay account” even though the buyer has left posotive feedback, stated in an ebay message they received the item but then filed a dispute of non received item and paypal cant check your ebay messages for proof!

    Theyre the same company when it suits them! For example closing both accounts because theyre “linked” but yet again theyre not when it comes to evidence in your defence!!

    Got rid of them a long time ago! Never Again!

    Bring a Google auction site and I may consider selling via online auction again! But until then its a no no from me!

    Good luck in resolving your issues everyone!

    Dave
30. Mudassar Rana says:
    April 30, 2010 at 2:15 am

    these are certainly the worst crooks. i cant understand how they are above the law. i get a chargeback today for someone who has left positive feedback.

    i win a case for non-supply of goods yet they cant give me compensation as he had no funds in his paypal – yet its them that say you have to wait so long to file a case?

    somebody files a chargeback after 4 months – and they pursue me for 350 pounds knowing full well that i have done nothing wrong but wont explain why i have to return 350 pounds to them? so because i wont pay up they restrict my wives account!

    i have to shut my shop on ebay and now cant pay the bills! these people do not give a shit and are some of the worst satanic people who even when you get to speak to them sound computerised! absolute bastard filthy excuses for humans
31. Sam Deeks says:
    April 30, 2010 at 10:38 am

    OMG!
    Seriously, though. Can you imagine what it would feel like to know that your company inspired this much bad feeling?

    But that’s the problem, isn’t it – nobody thinks PayPal is ‘their’ company. Nor, it seems, does ‘anyone’ have to take responsibility for it. That’s the future, folks. Google, PayPal, eBay. All the massive online businesses currently taking over the world.

    It’s the real cost of this ‘easy world’ of buying and selling online – and I think we’re really going to regret it one of these days
32. Brett Wharmsby says:
    May 3, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    During seven years on eBay I have had several run-ins with both eBay and PayPal. I won’t bore you with the fine details,but it came to a head with PayPal so I decided to ring the FSA,as at that time, about 4 years ago,Iknew they were responsible for regulating PayPal.
    I spoke to an advisor about the fact that PayPal were carrying out a number of malpractices that wouldnt be normally be accepted from a normal bank.
    The advisor said..”well they SEEM to be doing alright”.I asked him what he meant,to which he replied,”They seem to be making a lot of money”.
    I asked him if this was the criteria by which he assessed if an in institution was operating with integrity and within the rules.I got some sort of waffle and I slammed the phone down.No wonder we are in economic meltdown with those arseholes supervising everything.
    LATEST PAYPAL SCAM
    They now say they are “supervising all transactions for security purposes so they may take a little longer”.A withdrawal can take 7 days now unless you pay a £5 fee for each withdrawal.
    I wonder where the money is sitting for those extra days? tum tee tum
33. Sam Deeks says:
    May 3, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Brett – I totally agree with you. I was interested that this was the second time you’ve posted on this site (with pretty much the same comment).
    http://www.mukaumedia.co.uk/paypal-who-regulates/#comment-5854 Did you realise it was the same place (I think we’ve had a facelift since your last post).

    How do you get a ‘mail.ru’ email address, btw?
34. keith says:
    July 20, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Do not use the financial ombudsman, or any ombudsman for that matter. Once you have had your case accepted by the ombudsman and agree with their rulings, the courts are prohibited from having any power over the decision.

    There are plenty of complaints about the various ombudsman services. You can Google Jane Sanders timesonline and you will find that the ombudsman and adjudicators have no need for legal training, need for financial experience, they are given a new labour target of completing 3.5 cases a week to receive their bonuses or go without.

    If you want to check the truth of these statements, Google Natalie Ceeney telegraph.

    In the second paragraph you will see that the newly appointed ombudsman has no legal background and has never worked in the financial services.

    Is this really someone you want in charge of legally untrained adjudicators who only get a days job training,

    A legally untrained ombudsman and adjudicator, who have the power to make decisions, that cannot be forcibly overturned in an English court.

    Once you are trapped in the ombudsman web, the judicial review can only make recommendations on the legality of the way the ombudsman handled your case. Even then, if the judge rules in your favour, only a recommendation to the ombudsman is possible, the judge cannot force the ombudsman to change course.

    You seem to have to learn by bitter experience on the ombudsman matter. I am hoping this will change and more people will know of the dangers.

    [HMG your freedom] website is a good place to look for threads posted about repealing the ombudsman rules. The best way is not to use the ombudsman so that they are forced make changes and stop being biased towards big business, councils and utility services.

    I would also note that legal community advice is worthless and bailiffs from debt collection companies have no power of forced entry unless being court appointed as a criminal case, as long as you do not let them talk their way over your threshold. just make sure you email the bailiff you will not let them into your property and let them know in that email that you are forwarding this same email to your friends neighbours, as proof of your position which will then also have a date of that statement on the email.

    I hope I can at least stop one person from falling into the ombudsman trap. At least read up as much as you can on the ombudsman before you decide whether to use them or not.
35. Sam Deeks says:
    July 20, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Keith – thank you for you comment. Somehow, none of what you’ve written surprises me.

    Over the last few months on this site I’ve focused on Touch Local (a rush of unhappy customers complaining earlier this year), Camelot Castle Hotel in Tintagel (run by Scientologists who threatened me over the phone as soon as I blogged about them), Expo Guide (a criminal scam hitting hundreds of thousands of businesses every year), MacIntyre and Dodd Marketing (who rip off naiive old folks by the tens of thousands with their premium-rate ‘prize claim’ phone lines). In addition, we’ve looked at Ebay, PayPal, Amazon and quite a few others who seem to be able to make up the rules as they go along. I’ve pricked holes in a variety of online ‘business directories’ busy suckering money out of gullible people who couldn’t tell the proverbial shit from shinola – from the legal, ‘respectable’ ones to the downright scammy.

    The depressing thing that all these internet-based ‘businesses’ have in common is that, for all intents and purposes, they continue to operate outside of the law. Yes, that means that in practice, they can do what the fuck they want (excuse my lapse in decorum) and nobody, not even the so called ‘ombudsmen’ can do a damn thing about it.

    All I can conclude is that as a culture (UK 2010) we get what we expect and, unpalatable as this might sound, broadly what we deserve. If these crooks, con-men and cult bullies can carry on their work unchallenged by the forces of civilised law it’s because we allow them to.

    On a plus side, however, I’m encouraged to see just how strong the forces of the ‘crowd’ online have become – especially in the fight against scientology, for example. But it appears that these people don’t just sit around posting from the comfort of their bedrooms – they actually turn up in the flesh and make a noise. They put their heads above the parapet because they don’t (won’t) accept how something is.

    I share your cynicism about the Ombudsmen, Keith – and good for you posting about the subject. I hope you can make a difference to that one person too. I also wonder when things are going to get so bad that people decide that they’ve had enough being ripped off at every level of our society and demand something better. It hasn’t happened….. yet.
36. Lynne Brown says:
    July 26, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Hi Sam. Thanks for a great site. I have been a member of Ebay since 2002 and have a feedback score of 4282 with 100% positive. I pride myself in that record. I recently purchased an item for £140. A circulation booster for my dad who really needs this.

    The item arrived with very bad packaging, the box was burst and bits were missing, including the facing of the machine which covers the electronic display. I contacted the seller who was very rude. I therefore decided to do things the correct way and I contacted Paypal with all the information and escalated to a claim. I then got an email from Paypal asking me to report this incident to the police. I thought there was an error so emailed them back asking them to please elaborate, as I had never come across this before. They again emailed (the usual automated response) saying I had to report to the police. I contacted the central Scotland police station who completely dismissed this and said I had to return the item to the seller, who should then take up the matter with the postal service. They informed me this was definately not something they would deal with. I must say I agreed with them.

    I then contacted Paypal with continued replies of “please report this matter with your local police station.” I then phoned them this morning to be told the same thing. Even after I said the police would not entertain this, they said they would then just close the case. I tried to explain to the customer services person that this was ridiculous as I had done nothing wrong and really needed his help. He said he could not change the rules.

    I then typed up a note and took it to a different police station and again was told this was not a police matter.

    I have returned the item to the seller and followed everything Paypal asked me to do, but now I can’t get them to reply to my emails and I cant afford to continue to phone the international number they supply.

    Sorry for the long story but would really appreciate some advice to get my money back so I can buy another unit for my dad. Sigh!
    Thank you
37. Sam Deeks says:
    July 26, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Lynne, thanks for your comment – and please, don’t apologise about the length of the post, it’s fine.

    What you’re reporting here is unbelievable:

    You paid £140 for something that arrived damaged, unfit for purpose. You contacted the seller who didn’t want to know. You then contacted PayPal who said you had to report the issue to the police.

    You tried to do this, but the police told you it was a ridiculous waste of their time and that you should return the item to the seller (despite being £140 out of pocket) and hope that – despite not giving a toss before – now, miraculously, he might take the matter up with the postal service to try to get a refund to pass on to you.

    You then went back to PayPal who simply repeated their demand for you to report this to the police, stating that if you didn’t, they would simply close the case.

    You ended up being forced to send the item back to the seller (overseas) who now won’t reply to your emails at all. And that’s the end of the story – with PayPal exiting out the back door long ago.

    Lynne, I’ve been ranting about PayPal (and many other online mega businesses) for a long time now, arguing that they operate, for all intents and purposes, completely outside of the laws of any country. This isn’t some kind of conspiracy theory whinge, this is borne out time and time again by cases like yours. The idea is that eventually, you will give up (millions do) and go away. The crook at the other end will keep your money, PayPal will keep their commission and the only thing that will happen is that the guy you bought from will get a bit of negative feedback. Oh, does PayPal even permit negative feedback any more? Last I heard it didn’t.

    The world will continue turning, you’ll tear your hair out, and nobody will do anything because there isn’t a politician in this country (let alone any other) who even knows how PayPal operates, let alone how to bring it to book on it’s total lack of accountability. The problem is that no national law can control this kind of virtual, global business. The same is true for the international scams I deal with on this site too. No matter how well known they are, nobody can touch them because there’s nothing to touch them with.

    If nothing else, you should go to the national UK press / TV media with this story. Find a journalist or documentary film maker who would be willing to tap into some of the thousands of stories like yours. In this country alone, there must be tens of thousands of people who have been robbed either by the seller/buyer in a deal and by PayPal itself (in terms of the commission taken or funds locked away etc). And for PayPal, read ‘eBay’ their parent company. More often than not, each of you sit and rage in isolation, powerless to do anything.

    I’m sorry I can’t suggest anything more practical than that because in all my research into this, I’ve never found a single way to make PayPal accountable for anything. This situation will continue until someone – maybe someone like you – finds a way to bring all the isolated cases together in a way that governments simply can’t ignore.
38. bob smith says:
    August 5, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Sam

    Some useful advice here thanks. Out of the blue Paypal have asked that I send a copy of my passport (or similar) to pove who I am, and a copy of a uility bill (or similar) to prove my address. However, they have had my bank account and credit card verified for over 6 years and this should be proof enough. Indeed, I think they are in breach of the data protection act in asking, as they simply don’t need those data.

    I will follow your steps and complain to FOS and FSA, as paypal make it virtually impossible to complain, with idiots on the phone who lie, and a query/email system that just generates cut and paste answers. I will also lodge the issue with the information commissioner.

    I’ll let you know what happens but it will all take months. In the meantime I won’t use paypal which means I can’t sell on ebay. I raised the paypal restriction with ebay, as you have to give paypal as an option in order to sell, and not surprisingly they were not at all helpful. Indeed the rep denied ebay owned paypal and then went onto justify paypal!
39. Sam Deeks says:
    August 5, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Hi Bob – thanks for your comment. I’d absolutely not send a copy of passport and/or utility bill – this sounds way too much like a phishing attempt to me.

    Even if it was a genuine email from PayPal, then there’s no reason they should ask for those things. When it comes to challenging PayPal to explain itself (or give back misappropriated money for that matter) most people seem to give up because they simply can’t wait that long to trade. That, in my book, is the thing that gives them full license to do what they want.

    I short, they know that the average Joe needs them more than they need the average Joe.
40. bob smith says:
    August 6, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Sam

    I thought exactly the same as you so I contacted PayPal to report it. I was shocked to find it is genuine and my account is restricted until I submit the documentation, which I am not going to do. This means I can’t sell on ebay and whilst the account is restricted, i can’t even close it down!

    I see a long fight ahead.

    Bob
41. Sam Deeks says:
    August 6, 2010 at 7:38 am

    Unbelievable.

    Does that mean all / anyone using PayPal is going to be asked to send such documentation? Or is that demand the result of someone else doing something (i.e. flagging you up for some reason)? Or is it triggered by some activity on your part? Given this is PayPal we’re talking about, I suspect we’ll never know. All we do know is that they can do whatever they want.

    Do me a favour Bob – let me know how it goes? Keep a summary record of what happens and let’s add it to here. Someone, somewhere, sometime will push the right media buttons with this kind of story and make a big noise.
42. bob smith says:
    August 6, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Sam

    My account has been a model of sober, legal, trouble free transaction, and no-one has ever complained. One of my questions to PayPal, which they consistently ignore, is why now, after 6 years of trouble free transactions. The only change to my account was changing some credit card details when a new card was issued on expiry of the registered one.

    A friend who trades more frequently than me says that she was asked for similar after a few years, and she complied. I won’t as they are in clear breach of UK Data protection principles.

    I will be putting a dossier together and sending it to the Information Commissioner, the FSA and the Ombudsman. I will also be complaning to someone about the restriction on trade through ebay insisting sellers offer paypal.

    I will let you have a copy when its all put together in two weeks time.

    Bob
43. Sam Deeks says:
    August 6, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    I look forward to it Bob – be thorough, and I wish you every success making a big noise. If I can contribute a little volume to that, I surely will.
44. SR says:
    August 7, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    I’ve been asked to send various documents to paypal to prove that I am not “laundering money” through paypal, because I’ve received a whopping 2500 euros in total through paypal from various writing assignments and other small online jobs (I do a bit of freelance writing and lots of websites pay by paypal).

    I have around 300 euro on my paypal account which I suddenly found I cannot withdraw, because my account has been “limited” until I prove my address & ID. I’ve faxed a copy of the first page of my passport through twice and scanned and emailed it twice, but they claim the quality of the scan/fax is “illegible”.

    I’ve been asked to fax utility bills as proof of address, but most of my bills are in someone else’s name as I live in a shared house, and all the bills I have faxed are not acceptable for one reason or another. I’m extremely reluctant to fax a bank statement because it’s pretty private information. So whatever I give them is wrong. I’m not a UK resident, but it seems UK Paypal is dealing with other EU paypal accounts too.

    After reading this discussion I wonder if I’ll ever get my money!
45. Sam Deeks says:
    August 7, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Hi SR. You and Bob seem to have a similar problem.

    Just to make absolutely certain about this: are you saying that your account is actually limited i.e. – going in through your normal login process, you can’t actually access your money? If so (as Bob seems to also be saying) then this is a pretty dire situation for you.

    But the problem is this: in a context where there is no effective competition and a tie-up between eBay and PayPal on top of that, PayPal can afford to lose tens even hundreds of thousands of you, screaming, foaming at the mouth, blogging, tweeting and pulling your hair out – because there’s nowhere else for the millions of customers still using PayPal to go, even if they’re doing it dreading the moment that PayPal starts screwing around with their account without warning.

    This whole business works on a ‘shoal of fish’ mentality: “just so long as it’s not me…” Everybody just keeps on doing what they’ve always been doing and nothing changes.
46. Martyn says:
    August 13, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I don’t have a PayPal account.
    I bought with my Gold Credit Card from a website that only accepts PayPal.
    Transaction went through and I got a PayPal receipt.
    Did not receive what I ordered.
    When I contacted the supplier and sent a copy of PayPal receipt, I was told some unbelievable story about the money being reversed because of fraud.
    I checked my CC account, the money was debited, sent to the supplier’s PayPal account, and certainly not reversed.
    The supplier won’t respond any more to my emails.
    It’s a small amount but I don’t want them to get away with it.
    It’s theft.
    If I nicked goods to that amount in Tesco, I would be prosecuted.

    Impossible to contact PayPal as it sends me to a page to open a PayPal account or to their ridiculous limited automated “support”.

    Does anyone know a proper email for PayPal so that I can report the supplier for fraud?
47. Charlie says:
    August 14, 2010 at 12:37 am

    Well guys I’ve gt the same problem! paypal restricted account 14th July 2010 and have not provided satisfactory reason…

    So far submitted on request
    Driving Licence
    3 Months Bank Statments
    Receipts for products purchased
    Proof of delivery for last 5 items shipped

    With over £4K locked in the account and rising after 30 days or so I have all but now had to cease trading they now want receipts sent again as “too light” and copies of my P&l

    This is just ridiculous!!!
48. Martijn says:
    August 14, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Hi there, just came to pipe up – my situation is almost exactly the same as Bobs’ just above – first flagged for additional verification, then made to change my password, then made to answer some questions, then my account was set for id verification, because I refused to give them bank details or direct debit authority (hahaha as if…).

    Going through the motions of verifying my account with them, so I can close it down.
49. Martyn says:
    August 15, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Since then, I found the address to report PayPal violations
    aupviolations@paypal.com

    They are either utterly useless or a bunch of crooks.

    All they do is send an automated form that tells me to log into the account I don’t have ….GRRRRRR….
    I emailed back twice and have now received 3 automated forms telling me to log into my account (which I do not have).

    I also received an automated form asking me to confirm the email address registered with my PayPal account (which I do not have).

    Diabolical.
50. Dot says:
    August 16, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    I am going through exactly the same experience as Charlie, with a similar amount of money tied up. I queried how I had been able to open an account in June without providing all necessary information, the response was basically “well this is how we do it it’s all in our terms and conditions” and progressed as I pushed further to “I am not going to discuss this with you” I asked “do you come under the FSA?” and was told “no”, so said “I notice that your office is not in the UK, presumably this is to avoid coming under FSA rules?” answer “yes”.

    Meanwhile, my account was first restricted by PayPal (ie I can’t take money out) on 9th August. I provided what was asked for, it was unrestricted almost instantly and I transferred funds to my bank. Yesterday I discovered that later on the 9th more items were asked for and they supposedly sent an email asking for information, the email did not arrive, I did not know of any problem until logging on yesterday (15th) After speaking to a PayPal employee, and saying we have no ID Card in the UK, and as a sole trader I have no business registration number, I was told the requirement for business registration number would be removed – it has not been.

    A phone call today made no progress, my case will be looked at in 24-48 hours is all I can find out.

    The current list is:
    (a) confirm your credit card
    (they have sent a £1 payment to my visa debit card yesterday, when that reaches my account (2-3 days) I have to tell them the reference number
    (b) photo ID – I have uploaded via their website a photo of my driving licence with photo ID, but they have not looked at it yet
    (c) proof of address – I have uploaded a photo of a bank statement as requested showing my address
    (d) check email for additional documentation required – this is dated 9th August, no email has ever been received to explain this.
    (e)provide business registration number – both last night and this afternoon I have told the person on the other end of the phone that sole traders do not have a business registration number, the response this afternoon “but you have a business account”, I replied, yes, that is because I am running a business but in the UK only limited companies have a business registration number. When commenting that PayPal seems unaware of the legislative framework in different countries I was surprised to be told that “this office only deals with UK accounts” – because in that case they aren’t listening to what customers must be telling them over and over again – that we have no national ID and only limited companies have registration numbers.

    I am going away to re-read their terms and conditions, and wondering whether to stop receiving money as my new business is doing well and money is pouring into the paypal account with around one customer per hour.
51. Sam Deeks says:
    August 16, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Great to hear the business is going well, Dot!

    Your first para is gobsmacking. So they’re creating accounts without verifying ID… letting you fill up with money, then freezing your accounts until you provide required information… which they don’t seem to accept. Then?

    Anyone have experience of the funds being released after playing this game with them?

    I’m trying to figure out what the pay-off is for PayPal doing this… Ease of signing people up, ok, I get that. But freezing funds. What are they earning from that? Do people eventually give up and go away leaving £100, £400, £5000 unretrievable in PayPal’s possession?
52. Bob says:
    August 16, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Sam:

    What they get is balances and cashflow in real money. A little of that goes a long way in the world of virtual finance, and can leverage big returns. You don’t have to keep it for ever to take the profit on a deal.
53. Dot says:
    August 16, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Hi Sam,

    I have now heard from a few other people who have had similar experience and received some tips, in particular from someone who switched to Sage Pay and eventually got their money from PayPal after 8 months. She has passed on to me this link to a page with a list of phone numbers for PayPal contacts -
    http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/forum/payment-and-shipping-discussion/54434-paypal-and-ebay-contact-telephone-numbers-reach-humans-list.html
54. Claire says:
    August 16, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Hi Dot,
    They went through and did exactly the same thing to me when I started my business acc from a premier private, the trick I found it your business cheque book, for example its no good for them if your acc read j bloggs or dumb stores, it had to read full name trading as full business name or they would except it and then you could leave the reg no. empty. Hope this helps and good luck your going to need it S
55. Sam Deeks says:
    August 16, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Dot, that’s an excellent page of contact numbers. I’d like to hear from anyone who gets through on those numbers – especially if you get your problems resolved.
56. SR says:
    August 18, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Hi again,
    sorry I didn’t reply to your last question Sam but yes, I can login to my paypal account and see my money, but since my account is “limited” I can’t withdraw it or send it to anyone. However, I can still receive money so more money can go in but I can’t get it out!
    I scanned and emailed and faxed my passport 4 times and they finally accepted it. I have now been doing the same with my bank statement, which they say they accept as a proof of address, except I just got this email:

    “The document provided unfortunately is not considered a proof of address.
    Please send us a valid document that proves you live at the address which
    is currently registered to your PayPal account.

    The document has come through blurred and is illegible as a result. Please
    provide us with a new, clearer copy of a document that proves you live at
    the address which is currently registered to your PayPal account.

    What is a valid proof of address?

    We accept:
    – Utility bills (phone and broadband services, health insurance, gas,
    water, electricity or the like),
    – Bank or credit card statements.
    – Document has been issued within the last 12 months and is completely
    visible.”

    So… they do accept bank statements… and then don’t.

    I live in Finland and so far I thought that the Paypal office that deals with my case is based in the UK, but from some of the comments above from others I gather it is not? Like Dot, I’m experiencing difficulties in providing the necessary documents because what is considered proof of address in Finland is not in the UK. (We don’t have gas bills. We don’t even cook with gas!!)

    Thanks for this site! It helps to hear from others in similar situations. I have actually signed up with Moneybookers, not sure if it is any better but it might be an alternative.
57. SR says:
    August 18, 2010 at 9:37 am

    And I just looked at the list of emails and phone numbers provided by Dot – thanks SO much – I’ve just written a letter which I’ll send to all those email addresses and will also send by registered post. I’m reluctant to send my bank statement to random people but it’s my only proof of address that paypal seems to accept, so am contemplating it. I still want to contact the FSA to make a complaint about paypal even though I’m not in the UK. I wonder if it is worth it.
58. Charlie says:
    August 18, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Well believe it or not!!! After sending each document and resending the invoices that were too light I today received this…

    “”
    We have completed our review, and as you have completed all the requiredsteps, we have restored your account. We would also like to thank you for your patience and cooperation duringthis process.”" Paypal

    Yippeee! Don’t give up
59. Who'd Have Thought It! says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Just so you all know, it is a legal requirement for any business involved in “money” transactions to verify the user for both money laundering purpose and also against the HM Treasury Financial Sanctions list.

    This includes estate agents, solicitors, financial advisors, banks and anyone involved in financial transactions.

    Therefore if Paypal are opening accounts for individuals to trade money through without following these guidelines then they are in breach of UK law including the Prevention of Terrorism Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act.

    Tell that to the FSA, and they should be interested then. Especially as last week they fined RBS £5.6m for similar breaches around international money transfers.
60. Dot says:
    August 25, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Sorry I didn’t get back here before – my PayPal troubles were resolved very fast after they had seen my website, I got a phone call from the USA and we talked things through. Yes they specifically said they had seen my website, don’t know if they followed the link I put to this page.

    Co-incidentally, they did not send the promised email to tell me when the restriction was lifted, just as they hadn’t emailed me when they reinstated it.

    So what was on my website? I took the PayPal buttons down and put this up:

    I am very sorry but I have had to remove the option to pay me by PayPal, as Paypal have “restricted” my account. This means that whilst they are accepting money for payments, they will not allow give me access to it and they are preventing me from transfering money into my bank account and keep asking for a growing list of items to be resolved. This means PayPal are currently keeping all monies paid for YarnMaker through them since 9th August. A web search for other people having problems with PayPal reveals I am not alone – just look at this.

    I have spoken to PayPal by phone, last night and this afternoon, and am told that they will look at my case in 24-48 hours and email me with their response. If all is well and the restriction lifted, I will put PayPal buttons back on this site. The earliest this is likely to happen is Wednesday evening (18th August).

    I am very sorry for the inconvenience caused. Meanwhile, I will continue to dispatch magazines for which people have paid and PayPal is holding the money.
61. SR says:
    August 26, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Update!

    Paypal restored my account access today, after I emailed through my bank statement for the 4th time (the same one that had previously been “blurred”, “illegible” or “unacceptable”). I did send an angry email to all the email addresses on the list from that website (see previous post above by Dot). Not sure if it helped or slowed down the process…I’m relieved, yet still angry. It was just a few hundred euro but I’m sure it all adds up on some high interest account, or wherever my money was kept for several weeks.
    Good luck everyone. I hope you get your money back. I wish I didn’t have to use Paypal ever again, but I do get some payments for online writing work through Paypal, so I can choose either getting paid via Paypal or not getting paid at all.
62. kash says:
    August 27, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    I too have many problems with paypal, it seems to me that they hide behind the fact that they are a large company and as such many individuals would find it hard to take them on in terms of costly legal battles.

    However, it also occurs to me that one thing that does hurt is bad publicity, now online, sure you can find hundreds of complaints, but if youre like most people, you dont see this until you have had a problem yourself, meaning that online publicity may not be such a problem for paypal. However if we can get extensive news coverage that may be a diffrent matter, as this informs people before or who may be about to use paypal.

    So, wondering on an idea to organise a mass protest, physical people getting together in large numbers to show thier outrage, if we could get a whole big bunch of people together that may just get the TV news boys interested to cover the story and expose paypal / ebay to show thier true colours.

    Looking to see how many people would turn up if such a protest was organised say in london, maybe even make it bigger and get organised with similar interested people across all major cites around the world to hold an event on a spcific day.

    So show of hands anyone?
63. Sam Deeks says:
    August 29, 2010 at 12:21 am

    That would be awesome, Kash. Everyone I speak to has a story of losing money to PayPal. The amounts vary, some small some large but the one thing they all have in common is that the people in the end give up and write off the money, but carry on trading because in most cases they simply can’t afford not to. And that’s why PayPal doesn’t change anything or do anything to be more accountable… because there’s no point. In reality, people have no option.

    I’d love to see an anti-PayPal demonstration but there’d be no point aiming it PayPal. PayPal won’t listen because they’re a monopoly – and wherever you find a monopoly it seems you also find terrible customer service and lack of accountability.

    If there’s no point aiming a demonstration at PayPal, then who would it be aimed at? Government? Demanding that it regulates PayPal.. or else…or else what?

    Since eBay forces people to use PayPal (its own company), would the demonstration be against eBay? What would we be demanding of eBay? Make PayPal better or else.. or else what? We’ll stop using eBay?

    Personally, I think the genie is out of the bottle with these mega online businesses. They’ve become effectively uncontrollable and have also given up providing customer service. Until a coalition of governments make controlling these monsters (PayPal, eBay, Google, Amazon and others) important, then those monsters will do the controlling themselves.
64. Patty says:
    August 31, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Yeah, that’s true, everyone I know has anything to tell about Paypal services. I’m glad that more and more companies and online games start offering another payment options. I use prepaid card called paysafecard for online transactions, there are no hidden fees and there is nothing you can do wrong using it.
    I had a Paypal account but I quit, I’m fed up with waiting for ages till the money gets there and back. Argh!
65. Chris says:
    September 2, 2010 at 11:36 am

    I bought a company recently that trades on eBay. I immediately opened a new Paypal account and jumped through all the hoops in verifying myself.

    Then, 4 weeks later, Paypal freeze my account with £3,000 in it because the company I bought the website from have had a reversal of £118 on their old Paypal account, and Paypal and want ME to repay it – I spoke with Sergio at their Dublin call centre and they are basically bullying me into either repaying someone elses debt!

    They wont remove my limitation until the amount is cleared.

    PAYPAL SUCKS!!! OH FOR A ALTERNATIVE REGULATED SERVICE…
66. Dot says:
    September 5, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Chris, I don’t know where you are, but in England when you buy a company you buy the liabilities as well as the assets. Only way around this is purchase assets only.
67. ryan says:
    September 10, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    hi.can u help.ever since setting uo another email address n password fr pay pal ive ad nothing but trouble login ,,trying to get at MY MONEY.pay pal make it very hard to reset ur psswords .n such”very hard.cause every 1 cant remember secret courlours ov cars r favorate cartoon carictor..silly”i know this antway.still i cant get in.plz help..thanx..;???
68. tony says:
    September 14, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Hi all,

    ive been going through a complaint against paypal via the ombudsman now for over 4 months, paypal froze my account indicating that i am high risk’ quite how or why i dont know and ive asked questions to try and find out. They initially advised i needed to send in then usual utility bill, passport bank statements and tracking numbers of items sent out which i did 4 times!!!!! over a 2 and half month period then one day they just closed my account holding my money, which incidentally was my highest balance since i opened it!!!

    i don’t thinks its a coincidence clearly they like to hold as much as possible and ever since i have made a complaint its just all falls paypal’s way, for example the ombudsman only agree to deal with your complaint in 6-9 months(paypal hold your money for 180 days ie six months) so what they are saying is time will run out and paypal will have to send your money back when they decide ie 180 days, we won’t do anything before that, or can’t guarantee to!

    in between they also put an adjudicator on your case, who is NOT an ombudsman, just someone who tows the line, if you are not happy they then send it to the ombudsman!

    But as i say their hope is you get fed up and wait out the 180 days!!! all so annoying and one sided.

    Upon close inspection of paypal policy, they say they can hold money for 180 days, but if you have a a dispute you must raise it within 45 days and a claim within 20 days, therefore what’s the other 135 days for??? it baffles me and the ombudsman when i have asked the question merely state thats the terms you signed up to???

    I am still trying to get the ombudsman to see sense and step in but i will have to let you know as soon as i hear more, as with i am everyones case nothing seems to move quickly

    its all alot of nonsense and ultimately i agree with most of what’s been said that until the FSA gets a grip of paypal and either stops them trading in UK unless they become regulated or people stop using Ebay, simple, we need a competitor to ebay which allows any payment method within a set of parimeters and then and only then will we all be able to see the demise of paypal!

    Rgds
    T
69. keith says:
    September 21, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    As tony says above, the financial ombudsman is a joke like all other ombudsman bodies.

    For instance, Natalie Ceeney, new head of the financial ombudsman has never worked in financial services before, has no legal training, but she is now the top boss of the financial watchdog.

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/movers_and_shakers/article6984195.ece

    It’s just a coincidence that she just happens to be a former Labour Party activist isn’t it, no dodgy blair brown nepotism there then, placing a person in charge to benefit big business and the banks. The banks getting off paying back all the illegal penalty charges on a technicality.

    Must be as good a con as appointing your own judges to decide if your war was illegal or not, only 45 minutes to reach a verdict maybe.

    My point is, apart from the ombudsman being completely biased against the citizen, do you really trust a body, that has on its own admission, adjudicators, at least half that have no legal background and only a days on the job training, led by Natalie ceenie who has no financial background or legal training, appointed by the former labour government which was corrupt as hell, because she was one of its activist.

    The taxpayer pays god knows how much to these bodies, then that same taxpayer gets incredibly bad joke decisions.

    Never mind the evidence in black and white. bills, emails and all the other proof you present, it will ALL be ignored, totally disregarded, big business rules, big business gives better backhanders and comfy jobs to ex labour ministers maybe eh..

    Perhaps this coalition will be an improvement over time, then again, a dogs tapeworm would be an improvement on the corrupt blair and brown scums government…

    ( you can probably guess, I am now and have been an ex labour voter for some time now )
70. robert vallance says:
    October 3, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Hello i am writing about pay pall i was hacked on to my account. and pay pall limited my account for 1 year and would not let me do any thing i sent them detales with address and bank acount’s and email’s i all so noticed that some one was changing my passwords at the same time and i had to keep contacting pay pall to get my account back in my name then account detaels were changing some ones ells bank account had apeared on the pay pall and email address and house address and then i was locked out of pay pall and cound not get back in. i just contacted pay pall to day about getting my money out and close down my account so i can start up a new account. pay pall have told me becouse of the over activitay on my account off hackers they are banning me for life. so i cant open a new account.

    can some one help me with this problem
71. GB says:
    October 16, 2010 at 2:41 am

    Hi,

    We run an online business using services such as PayPal Payments Pro and rely on PayPal to process our payments. We process currently about £8000 in payments a month.

    Last week they requested further information from us. Which we gave within the time limit, there was still two days left to submit evidence and then they decided to fully restrict access to our account. Here is the full complaint letter, we have also lodged a complaint with the FOS.

    This clearly can not continue for 8 weeks for FOS to kick in or my business will most likely go into administration as a result. If there is not resolution soon I will most likely take legal advice.

    —-

    FAO: Compliance Officer
    PayPal (Europe) Limited
    Hopham House
    1 Heron Square
    Richmond
    Surrey
    TW9 1J

    Dear Sirs,

    After advice from the Financial Ombudsman, I am writing in complaint to action taken on the 13th October 2010 in relation to my account, in which access was restricted to include receiving payments.

    My account has been in use for over five years and is verified and approved. I have previously completed fraud prevention methods in October 2005, sending a copy of my Passport, Utility Bill and Supplier information.

    We initially received chargebacks which related to 10 transactions in late September and early October, of which 3 of these were initially refunded at the time of receiving payment, all other transactions the monies are being held. These occurred after we had completed a transition from our old company website platform to a Magento based software. Whilst we admit that we were naive to the issue of chargebacks at this point, this was due to carrying on 12 months of trade previously without a single charge back. When we transferred to our Magento based platform with Website Payment Pro, this was when we began attracting fraudulent transactions. We fully admit responsibility for the chargebacks received until the date of implementing our anti-fraud measures which have been detailed in email to you.

    On the 08th October 2010, we were requested by PayPal to submit further information to further verify of our company and account, this gave us seven days to submit the information required. We began to submit this information to you. We submitted all files, however the supplier invoice documents we sent were corrupt and displayed blank when received. We exceeded the 5MB space allocation online, we were told that we were unable to remove files and that we would have to fax the files. As we had no access to fax we sent these online via email along with information pertaining to how we would reduce the number of fraudulent transactions. As the files could not be accepted via email, we were told to submit these via an alternative method of uploading these by secure form which would should be used for evidence of a change of name.

    Over the next 24 hours we tried to upload these several times via this form however on selecting “send files to PayPal” this resulted in an error message, we completed this task using three different browsers. Each browser lead to the error message and ultimately to a “Bad Request” message. Each subsequent attempt to reach the PayPal website after this resulted in a “Bad Request” message, which could only be resolved by clearing the browser cache and cookies.

    As we were not certain that the files were received we tried to use an internet based faxing service to send the files via fax, several attempts were made to send the documents but these failed, as the connection was lost to you.

    We sent an email to Pro Support to confirm that we had attempted to send the files and that we were unsure if this was successful.

    Between the time from the request for information there was varying tasks which we could and could not complete on our account which was visible in the Resolution Centre. On Wednesday 13th October 2010, it was shown that we were able to make withdrawals from our account. As this was the case we attempted to process a withdrawal of £1600.00 to our bank account at 14:25:27 PDT, we received a confirmation email from PayPal to confirm this fact. After this had been completed the withdrawal was reversed and the full restriction was put on our account at 14:27:20 PDT as this was the time the payment was reversed. We believe that the full restriction was implemented purely in response to the withdrawal from our account, even though it was stated in the Resolution Centre that this was allowed on the account at the time. We find it hard to believe as suggested in phone calls to you, that the full restriction was implemented not in relation to the withdrawal. Even though there was still two days left for us to submit information for review according to the PayPal Resolution Centre at the time, and no other negative factors had occurred in the account.

    At no time were we informed of this reversal or via any communication method nor were we contacted in relation to the full restriction on our account. On Thursday 14th October 2010, we then received emails to state that customers could not pay for their purchases via eBay or via our website. On logging into our account we were then informed via information in the PayPal Resolution Centre that our account had had an increased restriction level implemented even though we had submitted all information with in the requested timeframe.

    We also received an email on 08th October 2010 which stated;

    “If we do not receive a response within Oct. 15, 2010, we may have to limit access to your account. Limited access protects your account until additional security measures can be completed.”

    This was advised to us that this was in relation to Virtual Terminal, however in the email this specifically specifies PayPal account.

    On the morning of Thursday 14th October 2010, we contacted the PayPal VT 3 Business Support team. We were told that the account had been restricted whilst the information received was being reviewed and that this could take up to 5-7 days. Obviously this is unacceptable to us to restrict our account during a review period when we have completed all tasks as requested within the time frame requested and you have imposed a restriction immediately after an attempt to withdraw funds which you said was acceptable based on the screen shown in the PayPal Resolution Centre. We are a business and are totally reliant on your services for processing card payments.

    The individual who we spoke to (Valerie) was able to confirm that the files relating to the invoices sent through the name change function had been received and was able to view these on screen. She also attempted to contact the reviewer of the account via email to see if this could be facilitated.

    As there was no immanent update as to the status of the account and the account continued to remain restricted we contacted support again. On this occasion the individual we spoke (Bakesh, this may be an incorrect spelling, this was a male of Asian origin) to informed us of a reason why we have had our account restricted in relation to the amounts of money that have been received to the account. This is obviously not the case as your own policies dictate that you verify individuals on receiving a total of £1900, and I have already completed this procedure five years previous. The individual was kind enough to also to contact a representative immediately after the call to see if the account restriction level could be reduced to allow payments to be received, and would contact us to inform us if this could be facilitated.

    At no point did we wish to have any facility other than the option of receiving funds reinstated as this was the facility which to us was essential for the carrying on of our business.

    As we had not received a confirmation either way in relation to the receiving of payments being reinstated we contacted customer services again to ascertain a status on this (On this occasion we spoke to a male of Eastern European origin). We were told that the reason that our account was restricted was due to the amount of chargebacks on our account, and this was to protect us from further fraudulent payments. Again this is a reason which we would believe to be false as from an email received on the 16 October 2010 we received in relation to a chargeback, your email stated;

    “because of your low dispute rate and consistent sales volume, we’re allowing you access to the funds while we investigate the chargeback. We want to extend this courtesy to our valued customers, because we know how
    inconvenient it can be to have your funds held. ”

    At this time the funds continue to be held by the restriction.

    If you were concerned from the outset you would have restricted the payments then, not in the instance after we had submitted evidence to you that we were now taking a proactive approach on reducing the number of fraudulent transactions through the methods described in our anti-fraud measures sent to you via email.

    When we asked if we could speak to a senior advisor, this request was denied as they were in a meeting. The staff member stated that a senior staff member would return my call most likely on Friday morning or afternoon, but he would call on Friday. He also said at this time that he would speak to a senior member of staff in an attempt to get the account restriction reduced to allow payments to be received, and this could take at least two hours.

    After three and a half hours, we had not received any further correspondence as was requested in relation to the outcome of those efforts, and the status in the resolution centre had not changed. We then contacted your customer services team again at 17:00. At this point Daniel, communicated with those that had spoken to me previously and confirmed that the status had not changed and that they were trying to get the restriction lifted. He also stated that no further updates to the status would be available before Friday morning, or at the latest Friday afternoon and they would update me.

    On Friday 15th October 2010, we allowed time for your staff to contact us. At 12:33pm and 12:44pm, we received two emails in relation to evidence in support of our case being received. At 4:30pm we had no correspondence from your staff to inform us of any change to the status of our account for the removal of part of the limitation. We also asked for confirmation that a member of senior staff would contact us before the end of the day. The staff member stated that if this was requested it should happen before the end of the day, and that this should happen before 5:30pm as this was when senior members of staff would be leaving. We also asked about the two emails received, he was unable to ascertain what these were and I was to disregard these, even though these were relating to evidence received by PayPal in relation to the review, even though the last evidence was received by PayPal on 13th October 2010.

    As we were uncertain as to the validity of the likelihood of a senior member of staff getting back to us before the end of the day. We called again at 5:05pm, and we were told that it was most likely a member of senior staff would not be getting back to us today, and that they would get back to us on Monday. They also stated that they would most likely state that they would be unable to do anything further in relation to removing the restriction, as your staff had escalated this to the highest level. We noted that we wanted to further confirm certain issues with them in relation to our submission of a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman.

    We are most disappointed that no senior member of staff could find time speak to us, considering that when we called the VT 3.0 Business Support team, each time we called the phone was answered by the same four individuals across all calls almost immediately, which would appear that the volume of calls to this department was not extensive enough to warrant particular demands on a senior manager to engage in the courtesy of a return call within 76hrs, which would be until Monday morning at 9:00am, however I feel that the courtesy of a return call isn’t going to happen.

    At this time we have failed to receive payments of over £400 that we are aware of. As a small business receiving 100% of our revenue and upto £500 a day through PayPal this is obviously having an adverse affect on our ability to perform any function.

    This issue understandably is unacceptable to us, and summarily we have decided to submit a complaint in relation to;

    The restriction of receiving payment on our account during the review period which we believe is without merit and has restricted our ability to carry out our business functions. We note section 10.2.a of the Paypal user agreement states;

    We may, at any time and without liability, suspend, block, limit, close or cancel your right to use your Payment Instrument or Account entirely or for any particular transaction, which may in turn suspend, block, limit, close or cancel access to your Account or the Services (such as limiting access to any of your Funding Sources, and your ability to send money, make withdrawals, or remove financial Information). We will normally give you advance notice of any suspension or cancellation but we may, if it is reasonable to do so (for example if you are in breach of this Agreement or we consider it advisable for security reasons), suspend or cancel your right to use your Payment Instrument or Account without prior notice to you.

    If this action is reasonable to do so, then surely you can explain;

    the part of the Agreement or Agreements that were breached and if these were not breached what reasons was it implemented for under security reasons
    provide details of if this process was completed by an individual or automated
    at what time this restriction was enforced, and;
    why this was implemented during the review period which had not expired and full information had been submitted

    We would also like you to explain;

    why this was implemented with haste immediately after a withdrawal from the account,
    why this was implemented without warning or notification as to the fact it had been restricted,
    why the withdrawal was reversed when this was a function of the account at the time that was allowed as stated in the Resolution Centre and at the time the account was not restricted,
    why staff failed to communicate the results of their attempts to remove restrictions,
    why there appears to be an inability to communicate with senior representatives at the three times specifically requested,
    why the promise of a call back and the time scale of this callback by a senior member of staff was not met,
    why staff used terminology in relation to the timescales of the process which may be misleading,
    why staff could not give an account for the change of the level of restrictions and why those that did varied,
    why staff could not account for emails received by me from you or ascertain what these were in relation to,

    We have submitted this complaint with a view to further action via the Financial Ombudsman should the issue not be resolved fully with explanation in a timely manner.
72. Sam Deeks says:
    October 16, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    GB, thank you for commenting – and sharing the text of your letter to PayPal. I hope that it doesn’t compromise your business in any way for me to publish it – I assume that’s what you intended by posting the comment.

    It’s a really clear letter – and hopefully will help others make sense of their situation re. restricted accounts and give them an idea what to do next – and the calm, thorough way to do it that you’ve managed here.

    No matter how few or how many people have this problem with PayPal, I continue to be amazed that this organisation appears to make up its own rules to suit itself. If you – as a business customer cannot get them to explain themselves to you, then for all practical purposes, PayPal is effectively unaccountable and unregulated.

    That – as I’ve said from the beginning of this thread – is outrageous.
73. GB says:
    October 17, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Hi Sam,

    I completely agree that its best to remain calm. I would also as I have not done is throughly record every communication with them. If possible even record the calls and play them back. I also think you should call them, and ask them questions, even if you continue to ask them the same questions over and over again to different people. That way you can see through the excuses as often its different reasons from different staff.

    My letter has just got longer … I added this snippet from the FSA regs on Payment Instruments asking them to explain how they met the legislation in this instance …

    why this was implemented without warning or notification as to the fact it had been restricted, and how you have met the following section of regulation 56 of the FSA relating to PIs implemented in Novemeber 2009;

    Before blocking or stopping a payment instrument (for example a credit or debit card,or an e-banking service),the payment service provider must have agreed in the framework contract that it can do so,and must contact the customer to advise them of its intentions and its reason for doing so. Stopping or blocking a payment instrument must only be done on reasonable grounds relating to its security, suspected unauthorised or fraudulent use of the payment instrument,or (where the instrument has a credit line) a significantly increased risk the payer may be unable to pay. If the payment service provider is unable to contact the customer beforehand, it must do so immediately after, using the means of communication agreed in the framework contract. However, if providing this information would compromise reasonable security measures, or would be unlawful (for example if it would
    constitute ‘tipping off’ under anti-money laundering legislation) this requirement does not apply.

    So maybe they didn’t tell me about the restriction because they are accusing me of being a money launderer … maybe indirectly accusing me anyway.

    But I have checked anti-money laundering legislation on HMRC as to what information is acceptable and they already have reviewed sufficient evidence on my account which was reviewed before the 13th October 2010 to lift the restriction if this is the case.

    On a second note I realised that it might not have been PayPal who verified my identity but eBay 5 years ago. In which case PayPal really wouldn’t want this to go to the financial ombudsman as money far in excess of anti-laundering legislation has passed through the account, in one month £20 000, which might lead to akward questions to why I wasn’t verified previously. I might leave the inaccuracy in the complaint.

    When I spoke to Valerie at 5:05pm on Friday, after I mentioned I was awaiting a call from a senior manager to clarify a few details for my complaint to the financial ombudsman. She seemed a little flustered. Her attitude at least seemed to get even nicer and friendlier, the team are genuinely friendly and polite, just can’t actually do much as they seem to have no actually authority to do anything on your account. She put me on hold to see if she could get even a manager from other departments to talk to me, but that was a failure.

    She did tell me however that the review team are working at an average 48 hrs to review accounts. Which would have meant that my account would have been reviewed at 11am on Saturday morning as its a first in first out system or so they say. But a further 12 hours later than that time, still no confirmation from them.

    Either they must have slowed down their average work speed or they left one guy at the office all weekend on his own, as she also stated the review team do work weekends.

    I feel there is many more calls ahead.
74. Keith says:
    October 19, 2010 at 10:34 am

    As of Oct 2010 PayPal have blocked withdrawal of funds from my account for no real reason other than saying my withdrawal was flagged. I was then told via email that funds would be received in my account within 2-3 days. The next day PayPal sent another email to say funds withdrawn could not be completed and would returned to my PayPal account account. Telephoning the office is pointless because no ressolution is, or can be made. In affect they have stolen my money at worst, or have unauthorised control over its release without any satisfying reason why they have done it. This is not only intimidating, it is downright illegal without good cause to do it. They are a law unto themselves and no one can do anything about it. The FSA either has no clout, or is unconcerned for its citizens in these matters. What is going on? Should I wait and do nothing? Or should I make a claim in the small claims court and then serve a bankruptcy notice on the company? I, like hundreds of other genuine users need some answers and some positive action from the powers to be. FSA, please don’t leave us sitting on the fence over this issue. We are ordinary folk with no personal clout and we need strong leadership from you.
75. Tony Christodoulides says:
    October 27, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    I agree entirely with the general comments concerning the poor service provided by Paypal and the deliberate obstacles faced by a would-be complainant.

    My own view is that Paypal operates, in fact if not in name, as a deposit taking institution without complying with the regulations that apply to such entities. Paypal will seek to keep funds for as long as possible and create obstacles to recover one’s own funds. The business reason is easy to see. If, as in my case they have kept funds for over 14 days they can earn interest on those funds when they are deposited with their participating institutions. If as they claim they have 200 million account holders and hold funds from them for any period of time, it is simple to see the amount of interest they will earn, even if they keep the moneys in an overnight deposit.

    I have closed my account with paypal (it was opened for one transaction) I have complained to the regulator in Luxembourg and tend to make to a complaint to all the other appropriate regulators.

    I would suggest there is a concerted campaign to ask Paypal to dinclose the agreement they have with their financial intermediaries. I would also recommend that mo-one uses their services. It is unnecessary as there are other secure methods that can be used. Paypal’s customer base has developed from its association with Ebay, Ebay owns Paypal and is adopting as a deliberate policy to force users of Ebay to use Paypal,

    Paypal’s atrocious behaviour and attitude to customer service must be checked. It myst be properly regulated. The customers can force this to happen if they refuse to use their services and bombard the company with complaints.
76. george says:
    November 3, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    hi i sold a mobile phone on ebay and had the funds paid to me via pay pal but they wont let my have my money i have given then proof of id recipts and every thing they have asked for and they have now frozen my account for 6 months and wont give me a reason why and wont tell me how i can get it un frozen it makes me very fustrated how they think they are above the law can anyone help.
77. Dodo says:
    December 6, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    ONLY ONE NAME FOR EBAY – BIG FAT THIEVING BASTARDS!!!!

    How do they sleep at night knowing they are holding or even stealing poor peoples’ money!!

    All we are trying to do is earn a living through selling stuff- But what do they do, demoralise the few people who have taken the initiative to do some business during these hard times of huge unemployment.

    SHAME ON YOU EBAY!!!
78. downunder says:
    December 20, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    I have used PayPal to collect registrations for a course I’m organising in Sydney next January. It is a quick, well documented and relatively economical way of enabling people to pay for the course. There is a lot of money in the account, needed to pay the venue, teachers and other expenses but guess what…….
    I have sent all the info I can (passport, statements etc) and more, it’s all been accepted but the account is still frozen. I’ve made many calls to the disputes department (charming people but seemingly impotent) and offered to supply whatever information is required to make PP happy. The latest is to try to negotiate a percentage of the amount held so that I can pay the bills.
    I’d never had any problems with them before, trading on a very small scale but I shall never use them again.
    I guess I may just have to wait until next May as it seems that nobody has found a way to get them to act reasonably.
79. downunder says:
    December 22, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    I had a call from Dublin this afternoon asking for sight of contracts with my suppliers and based on that offering to release about 20% of the frozen funds so that I can pay the invoice from the hotel venue where the course is being held.
    I’ve just spent a happy hour or more uploading files for them.
    I’ll post the result.
    I did send a stroppy email and copied it to moldenburg@paypal.com and I wonder if that did anything to unblock the situation.
80. downunder says:
    December 23, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Spoke too soon! They want even more information! This is incredible!!!
81. downunder says:
    January 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    I finally got 28% of my money released. The rest they are holding until after the event and the final amount will be released 30 days after the event. If they had suggested this at the start I would have been spared a great deal of anxiety!
    They look forward to continuing to serving me in the future!! Fat chance!!
82. Sam Deeks says:
    January 6, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Wow. Thanks for the update. Encouraging…NOT.
83. Brian "very annoyed" Turner says:
    January 27, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Calling Sam Deeks, calling Sam Deeks ! F*%K ME ! I thought it was just me, my bad luck, something I’d done wrong somewhere ! Now I’ve barely scratched the surface with my “paypal problems” trip !! First stop was the Daily Mail’s Financial advice website…. only 1500 complaints there! And some were exactly the same as mine: restricted account, can put in but not take out (that’s cost ebay a customer. I was doing well until the first time I asked for cash! I withdrew all my items for sale and will NOT use ebay again). I have an ominous £666 trapped in Paypal land. Two new UK TV programmes to spread the word on, possibly; BBC’s “Rip-Off Britain” and C4′s “Secret Shopper”, + it’s website,channel4.com/secretshopper. Only 2 weeks of going in circles and banging my head against a wall and I’m ready to write to Prime Minister David Cameron !! Hey, anyone in the USA written to The President yet??
84. Brian "very annoyed" Turner says:
    January 27, 2011 at 12:32 am

    PS Whatever happened to the founder of Ebay? Does HE still own it, + Paypal ?? He needs a good talking to if he still owns it!!!! The robots at both obviously know how to keep him in the dark. Start a petition, Sam Deeks, start a petition!! Start TWO !! Sam Deeks for God! God for Sam Deeks! You’d be off to a flying start in the followers department!! And we could all have Sundays off when The Great Beast is no more !! And free exclamation marks for all. Hey, I’m new to this computing lark but I’m already fired up and ready to rumble !! Down with Paypal !! Sad really, because the basic concept’s great. Anyone spreading the word on Twitter ?? Any Celebs got the same problems as us ??
85. Brian "very annoyed" Turner says:
    January 27, 2011 at 12:42 am

    PPS And we’ve all got representatives in Parliament ! I’ll put my £666 where my mouth is and ask mine to raise a question at “Prime Ministers Question Time” !!! “Can we Please have all our money back ? And more exclamation marks for all ?!!!!”
86. Sam Deeks says:
    January 27, 2011 at 12:49 am

    Brian, Brian, Brian. PayPal has driven you sane. You were insane when you signed up to use it but now you’re cured. Welcome home.

    You’re right, you HAVE barely scratched the surface with PayPal problems. I reckon there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in your situation. Because what can any of you do about it? Complain to the Daily Mail? What’s that achieved? Nothing.

    Somebody could be The One – The One to take on PayPal. Why not you?
87. Brian "very annoyed" Turner says:
    January 28, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Not enough Brainpower,Sam. Or should that be BRIANpower ? Just called to say that I can confirm Paypal ( or Don’t Paypal as they should be known ) are still up to the usual tricks; When I finally thought I’d made progress at the end of the first week of problems they said I could confirm my address by post — they’d send a PIN number within a few days and I could type that in. I returned to their verification page virtually immediately to see “CANNOT VERIFY BY POST” had appeared !! Ominous but I’ve given them time. No PIN yet, but now I’ve had an Email demanding faxed documents, with PHOTO I.D.!!!!!????? So they know what I look like, do they?! They’re going to say “Yeah, that’s him, give him his money back” are they? Fat chance!! I may not be The One, Sam Deeks, but I may be one of the Ones. I’m going to take my own advice and start contacting the programmes and MPs I mentioned before. And we have Euro MEPs….. And UKIP !!! They have MEPs and will probably stir it if they realise Paypal’s actions are so very unBritish and backed by the EU…!! Hey, I might even start twittering at this rate…. I’ll have word with the little Robin I’ve been feeding this winter….
88. Brian "very annoyed" Turner says:
    January 28, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    PS since writing the above I’ve been discussing my problems with a friend. Whilst I waited on the phone, he Googled “Paypal wanting ID”. He found reference to the US Government putting the squeeze on the small sellers to raise revenue. Don’t know if this is speculation or truth, or why Don’t Paypal, as it will hereby be known, would want European sellers to forward PHOTO ID even if it was true !! Or is the EU doing the same !??
89. Brian "very annoyed" Turner says:
    January 29, 2011 at 12:06 am

    Since writing the above, I made time to look at UKIP’s website. Ironically they’ve begun a “flasher’s appeal” to raise funds to fight cases similar to the one about a man prosecuted for warning other motorists about speed traps…… They’ve opened a Paypal account….. OOOOPS
90. Brian "not as annoyed as I was " Turner says:
    January 29, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    A miracle, Sam Deeks, a miracle has occurred !!!! The exclamations must have worked but in a most mysterious and totally unfathomable way !!! Since yesterday’s anti-paypal ramblings (see above) TWO things have happened; 1)On returning from this morning’s Saturday shopping trip for food, I found a Paypal letter in my post box (a miracle in itself as we usually receive post mid-afternoon these days !!). Apologies to Paypal as I seriously thought they’d NOT even posted one — The PIN number arrived !! (from Jamaica !!??). So, I began to follow their instructions, logged onto Paypal to find……… 2) The message “Your account access is back to regular standing” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t need to type in the PIN, no need to send personal documents, no more standing on my head in a dark corner…… So why all the rigmarole?? Now I have a curious feeling; a mixture of relief, though it still remains to be seen whether I can actually remove all the cash without triggering another set of hurdles to jump through, and anger that they’ve put me through this, and guilt because, human nature being what is, I will probably get on with my life and forget all about it and everyone elses problems ! So, I’m now in a dilemma; I have lost 3 weeks selling-on-ebay time, with no prospect of compensation, but I still need to sell this heap of personal collections I’ve been accumulating, so do I carry on where I left off ??… And this result raises questions; Do Paypal monitor all the complaints sites and “buy off” people like me by restoring their accounts?? (rather than just doing the right thing in the first place). Did they see my name rather than a ‘handle’ or initials and pick me out to silence me ??(It may just have worked!!). Why do they ask for PHOTO ID etc etc etc? Why do they restore accounts without the use of a PIN and without me sending ID ??? The Russian Roulette of Paypalishness ?? My friend says ‘don’t complain about it’. To anyone who still has problems… DO COMPLAIN !! If it takes a name rather than a handle to get the message through then do it. And if neccessary, flag up UKIP’s name and see what happens. If they don’t like their cage being rattled then hit it with a stick!! So, THANKYOU, Sam Deeks, for allowing to air my, albeit brief, rants on your site. And Paypal beware…. I havn’t finished with you yet. My grudge list is long and I do NOT forgive and forget. Any more problems, for anybody, and I will be back. BRIANpower has barely begun.
91. Sam Deeks says:
    January 29, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Wha-hay Brian ‘Not as pissed off as you were’ Turner!!
92. downunder says:
    January 31, 2011 at 7:18 am

    My account has been restored. Ah, but my money is now “on reserve” or some other term for “stolen” and we’re talking thousands here not just a few quid.
    I have an email stating the schedule for the funds to be released – so all is well? No, because I had a phone message asking for all the same information about my business all over again – from square one.
    I’m treating the email as a contract and will sue them for breach if they don’t pay up.
    These people have to be stopped!
93. Jeremy ward says:
    February 1, 2011 at 12:46 am

    I sold my iPad on ebay last week, the buyer paid through PayPal. I sent the item and he received it and left positive feedback on eBay. Then on Friday I received an email from paypal saying the payment had been reversed back to the buyers bank. I had already spent the funds for another item so I had nothing in my Paypal account. I now have a negative balance with paypal! So the buyer got a free iPad now. I told Paypal and they said take the buyer to court or call the police! For some reason I am not covered by their seller protection policy either.
    They said the reason for the reversal was because the buyers transaction was not authorised by their bank, yet they deposited the funds in my PayPal account for me to use! Now they are ignoring my emails and as far as their concerned case closed. So I now owe PayPal £270. The buyer is not responding either surprise surpirse. What can I do now?
94. Sam Deeks says:
    February 1, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Hi Jeremy – I don’t know, simple as that. PayPal appear (as I’ve said a thousand times before) to be a law unto themselves and will keep on being that way until people walk away or somebody regulates the hell out of them. Neither of those two look likely to happen, sadly.
95. Brian "not as annoyed as I was " Turner says:
    February 3, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Hello, it’s me again !!! Whilst my problems seem to be over, for now at least, I’m still REALLY annoyed about what happened to me. Paypal NEVER answered any of my Emails. Curiously, days and days after I’d sent messages to EBAY, THEY at least began to reply !!….about the same time Paypal took the restrictions off my account !! Odd, that !! One reply, to an email I had headed “Closing my (ebay) account”, said that my concerns would….”be escalated to management”…. So, metaphorically speaking, ebay’s left the kids to open the front door to visitors ??, whilst bigger brother and sister watch TV maybe ??, and mum and dad, the ones who SHOULD be in charge, are in the back yard sunbathing and chatting with the neighbours !!?? Typically pathetic !!
    One of the previous comments on this page referred to the Police being unsympathetic regarding complaints about ebay/paypal rip-offs (chargebacks). On TV a couple of evenings ago was an item about credit card cloning etc. An expert called in to comment on this stated that this varies up and down the country. Some Forces don’t want to know, others will take on the case like any other relating to theft, even …”to the point of prosecution”.. So don’t be put off because someone else had no luck in that direction, you may just live in an area where the Police ARE bothered !! Catch the Fraud Squad when they’ve just finished their tea-break and you never know !!
96. Graham says:
    February 6, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    This is the letter I’m sendinto PayPal’s head office in Ireland:

    6th February 2011

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I wish to complain at the way I have been treated by Paypal, and how unfairly you have labelled me a risk!

    I set up a new business this January 2011, as XXX. My company is registered and I have a bank account with LloydsTSB, whom opened the account for me after discussing my business proposition.

    I then went on and opened a business account with Ebay (XXX), and opened a PayPal account with you (XXX). You verified me by doing a credit search on my credit file to confirm my electoral roll information (I have lived here for 9 years), and I have verified my bank and card details with you.

    I sold a few items on ebay, and then at the end of last week, I sold two cameras. I had just set up a trade account with a big company (that also does business with you), Pixmania. I sold the cameras and went to my PayPal account to withdraw £400.00 of the £1,050.00 I had received from my buyers. About 10 minutes later my account was ‘Limited’ pending further information. You asked me to go to the Resolution Centre, where you asked for NO extra information at all!

    I had to refund the amounts paid to me, as I was not having this money ‘frozen’ in my account for 180 days.

    I telephoned your ‘Limitations’ department who then told me “I was a risk” and that you were closing my account. I asked why he considered I was a risk, on what evidence, and he would not give me any answer. I feel this is a slanderous accusation.

    If you look at my ebay account I have a 100% positive feedback. My PayPal and Ebay accounts are linked and there should be no reason why you could make that accusation about me.

    I know that you offer a service and can withdraw it when you want, but how can I trade on ebay that insists that you accept PayPal to sell some of your goods. I find this a total conflict of interest in both Ebay and PayPal being linked so closely together. Ebay have now limited my account due to PayPal’s limitation on my account.

    In this current econic climate where small businesses are being asked to set-up and employ people, I do not know why PayPal are acting this way. You should be encouraging new business not hindering it! Considering that I have been checked by you doing an id check on the electoral roll and verified my bank details, what more do you need?

    I ask that you re-instate my account so I can trade again.

    However, if you still insist that I am a risk, I will be taking the following steps;

    • I will seek legal advice as to the false accusation a member of your staff has made against me, calling me a risk without providing me with any evidence.
    • I will write to the FSA, Monopolies and Mergers Office to ask about this conflict of interest ebay and PayPal have, and why ebay will not accept any other payment facility from another company they do not own.
    • I will ask the Government/DTI to investigate this procedure
    • Contact the European Courts about this conflict of interest where Ebay owns Paypal and insists that they accept PayPal payments on certain items, when it’s their own company.

    I will pursue this matter through the courts if I have to as I am so incensed about this position. I am a small company starting off trying to sell on ebay, yet stopped due to their other company (PayPal) falsely making accusations against me.

    I look forward to your reply within 14 days of this dated letter.

    Yours faithfully,

    Graham
97. Sam Deeks says:
    February 7, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Nice work, Graham. You MUST let us know what kind of response you get to this letter.
98. Brian "not as annoyed as I was " Turner says:
    February 7, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Just found http://www.AuctionBackOn.com offering a guide book, for payment of course, which offers ways to get Paypal accounts etc unfrozen. Has anyone tried this? Does it work?
99. Doulgas says:
    February 9, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    bought a pc battery, it didnt work, bought from pcbattery.co.uk
    They are actually based in Hong Kong

    Battery sent back , dispute raised with PayPal

    I was able to show then the tracking proof of return on the Royal Mail tracking website

    They did not support my claim and closed the account

    So I am £40 out of pocket

    PayPal your a bunch of arrogant people, who make no sense
100. Theodora says:
     February 9, 2011 at 4:56 pm

     I had what I thought was a cut and dried issue bought a computer it broke down I sent evidence that I had posted it back to seller I indicated on the form that this was under other as there was no other option was available,.
     Paypal denied my claim because”The tracking information you provided was invalid, and we were unable to
     confirm delivery of the item associated with this claim. As a result,
     the
     case is now considered closed and we are unable to process a refund.

     We encourage you to work directly with the seller to find a resolution.

     Thank you for your cooperation.

     Yours sincerely,

     Protection Services Department ”

     I checked the form today the proof of postage to seller was under Proof of posting/delivery of items to buyer, I intend to get my money back, I think the only recourse would be the ombudsman.
     I think some major fraud is happening reading all the above responses.
101. Sam Deeks says:
     February 9, 2011 at 5:04 pm

     Theodora, I think I agree with you.
102. Theodora says:
     February 10, 2011 at 12:01 pm

     This is a copy of my reply to paypal

     Like i said in my previous email I sent proof that I sent the package back and labeled it under other it was later changed and not by me, if you needed proof of delivery to me you were under obligation to ask for it, a fraudulent act seems to have taken part,if I do not receive a satisfactory conclusion I will have no option but to take it to the financial ombudsman. The fact that you are not replying to my emails with the wrong name says it all.

     THEODORA ANAGOR
103. Giardaella says:
     February 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm

     SORRY FOR THE LONG POST, this is my email to them.

     Not to be ignored! To be replied to within 14 days of receipt.

     On 02/02/11 the dispute between myself and a buyer was closed in my favour (the seller).

     Connor (desktop no. 5.0.323) correctly identified the false allegations of the buyer and denied buyer’s claim. This was on the basis that under 13.9(b) of your terms and conditions the item was not Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) as the buyer did not want it after the purchase, but the item was correctly described.

     I even provided you with the PDF version of the buyer’s email where he reveals the REAL reason for not wanting the phone! He thought (through no fault of mine) that he was getting a 32GB version. Why was this not mentioned during the dispute? That’s right, because the buyer knew he would not have been able to return it if this was the reason.

     On 04/02/11 I received an email notifying me that the decision had been overturned. Knowing that appeals are only allowed if new evidence comes to light, I contacted PayPal (Amy and Michael, both by phone) and both of them told me that the buyer claimed that

     1) warranty, which I included with the phone in the sale, was not transferable; and
     2) the internet on the phone was not working, so the item was faulty.

     On 09.02.11 I collected the returned item from the post office and commissioned a report from Apple, the manufacturer which confirms my description of the item, in that both:

     1) the warranty IS transferable; and
     2) the full diagnostics test established all the functions of the phone to be WORKING perfectly.

     Therefore, as you clearly made a mistake by basing your appeal decision on the new ORAL evidence which turned out to be false and incorrect, I urge you to reconsider your position.

     Please remember that you are not allowed to base your appeal decision on the old facts of the case, on which there had already been a full review and the initial decision given.

     You were ONLY meant to consider NEW evidence when overturning the decision. I have documentary evidence of the commissioned report refuting both pieces of the NEW evidence. Those are in the form of documentary evidence, the report from the manufacturer which clearly states the serial no. of the phone being diagnosed and confirms its perfect working order.

     My frustration is with you because of the following.

     According to 13.6 of your T&Cs, you MAY request either the buyer or seller to provide

     “receipts, third party evaluations, police reports, or any other information or documents reasonably required by PayPal to investigate the Claim.”

     WHY was this not done? WHY was the buyer not asked to provide documentary evidence, or at least SOME evidence, when he appealed the decision. It would only be reasonable to request the buyer to substantiate their claims, which I did throughout the whole resolution process, rather than trust his word, proven to be full of lies!

     Following 14.1 of your T&C, I am first contacting you to resolve this error on your part.

     Secondly, if we do not reach any agreement, I will be contacting the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) under 14.2(b) for you having unfair terms in your contract, which allow you to make arbitrary decisions without admitting that you could make a mistake. Further, you did not even follow your own terms on appealing the decision as you based it not only on NEW evidence, but considered the old facts too.

     Finally, I am itemising every minute of my time since 04/2/11 the date where you wrongly overturned your initial decision and started to waste my precious time. The expenditure claimed will involve time spent on writing letters, commissioning reports, collecting the item, telephone conversations, contacting various other parties, including FOS. This is simply due to the fact that I find it extremely unfair the way this dispute had been handled.

     The seller was not given any protection and you aided the buyer to get out of this legally enforceable contract!

     Please do let me know where I can send the scanned copy of the commissioned report about the condition of the phone, as Michael advised me that you are not able to receive attachments. The Resolution page does not allow me to upload any documents.

     I am looking forward to hearing from you with the most fair suggestion as to how to resolve this issue. I have been registered with ebay since 2004 and have 266 100% positive feedback both through selling and buying. This should speak, if not volumes, at least SOME weight should be given to this fact when listening to my side of the story, which is ALWAYS supported by DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE in contrast to the buyer!
     ———————————————————————
     THEY OFFERED ME £10 FOR THE SIM CARD!!!! I will now be contacting the FOS, the FSA and their European equivalent of the FSA in Luxembourg and maybe the OFT. Further, I now have both the funds and the phone back. So, I was considering letting them chase ME, rather me chase them for refunds, what do you think? Shall I just deal with the collection agency and deny the enforceability of their terms?
104. Giardaella says:
     February 10, 2011 at 3:40 pm

     P.S. I collected the item today from the post office, the buyer did not return either the original receipt posted to him, or the sim card included with the phone… But this is just an example of the buyer’s honesty!

     So far I have lost out on:

     1) ebay fees of £12.49;

     2) Postage fee of £7;

     3) Difference between the potential sale price of the phone and the original purchase price of £500;

     4) Around 6 hours of my time @ £15 per hour.

     This all will be claimed/counter-claimed/set-off if required in the future proceedings, legal or otherwise (possibly involving UTCCR 1999).
105. Sam Deeks says:
     February 10, 2011 at 6:45 pm

     As always, un-be-f****-lievable.

     Giardaella, that’s some account – very well written. I hope it does some good but I have a sinking feeling that it won’t. From all the stories I’ve heard, PayPal is to all intents and purposes unaccountable. That means they can do what they like to make themselves more money.
106. Theodora says:
     February 10, 2011 at 10:59 pm

     Is there another site that is similar to paypal,if enough people stop the flow of money through paypal we can hurt them in the pocket.
107. Sam Deeks says:
     February 11, 2011 at 12:20 am

     You know, surely that has to be the Holy Grail of online business – the credible, decent, accountable alternative to PayPal. So why haven’t we heard about something like that??
108. Theodora says:
     February 11, 2011 at 1:12 am

     http://surveys2.incontact.com/paypal/survey_paypal.taf?survey_id=1566&user_id=63621B3D-43C5-4054-AA07-627405C4BCEC

     Everyone fill out Paypals customer service survey, funny that a few hours after I sent my statement.
109. Theodora says:
     February 11, 2011 at 1:18 am

     http://www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html

     I found a few alternatives here I am going to check them out
110. Andrew says:
     February 15, 2011 at 2:15 pm

     Hi opened a PayPal account on the 13th Feb 2011 and sold my first order using this account by the 14th Feb they had closed it saying i am a risk! how can i be a risk? apart from not yet adding my bank / account details!

     They use an automated reply – but i had taken my time to email them.

     How can they do this to new business start ups

     I have given them 8 weeks to re open my none risk account

     I will be going to the London High Court also – 180 days before you get your money! we will see….
111. Sam Deeks says:
     February 15, 2011 at 5:25 pm

     Go for it Andrew. If i had an issue with PayPal like any of the people who have posted here, I’d be recording every step of my journey and turning it into to TV show.
112. Theodora says:
     February 17, 2011 at 1:09 am

     I think we should do it as a collectve.
113. Ian says:
     February 23, 2011 at 12:50 am

     I smashed my knee up and (for no connected reason) my father needed to get 100GBP to me. He’s 83, and I use his credit card to pay his bills and buy what he needs. So, rather than get a taxi to a cashpoint (with the associated problems of mobility and pain ) I opened a PayPal account for him and transferred the amount across.

     It’s now been on hold for a week (thereby totally effing up the reason for the transfer, i.e. speed) and I haven’t had an explanation of the original ‘on hold’ decision, or any response to the daily emails I mentioned earlier.

     Not sure who to approach next, but adding to any thread like this anywhere I can find one is the first move.
114. Colin Cartwright says:
     February 25, 2011 at 1:20 pm

     If you want a number to call paypals head office on then use this one. 0208 6100150.

     They left me a message about my idiot son who has done a runner with someones money. He does not live at home any more he’s 30 yrs old, but as he never changed his paypal streets address after he left, they have now decided to restrict my account as it is ‘linked’ in their langauge. Bollox it is, they use different bank accounts and everything. Not my problem. I have told them that they are discriminating against me which is illegal. I have told them I am gong to take this to the highest authority unless they de-restrict my account, but far more worryingly, they have fannied about for 3 weeks now, giving my idiot son plenty of time to make his escape with their funds and have only JUST GOT ROUND to trying to track him down. I called them 17 days back to tell them there was an issue as I was getting calls about non deliverd goods on Ebay and I don’t even use Ebay!!

     Its no wonder people scam them, it seems just too easy. God help those of you have lost money. From I can see they are utterly bleeding useless
115. Tom Coady says:
     March 4, 2011 at 12:03 pm

     The FSA just told me Paypal operates in EEA and is regulated by http://www.cssf.lu/
116. Rafal says:
     April 5, 2011 at 3:27 pm

     Paypal sucks. Stop using this shit!!!
117. Mitchell_UK says:
     April 11, 2011 at 7:29 pm

     Paypal are a joke. A load of monkeys who hide behind poor business practices and have no care on how they handle YOUR money.
118. sherif khalil says:
     April 23, 2011 at 11:55 pm

     i have been trying to get an answer about item i bought and agreed with the seller to deliver it as it was originally listed for collection, and i sent an extra £20 as the seller requested for delivery then the seller stopped answering my messages and kept the total of £32.50.the seller even never answered my last email which i clearly requested a full refund or i would open a case .paypal never took an action after explaning all the situation. who else can get me a refund or at least my item. the item no xxxxxxx, the seller is xxxxxxx. thank you ,hope better results with you. thank you.
119. Sam Deeks says:
     April 24, 2011 at 11:21 am

     Hi Sherif – sorry, I’m unable to solve problems with PayPal. My post was simply to offer information that I’d discovered after spending the best part of a day researching the situation.
120. Mark says:
     May 7, 2011 at 10:26 pm

     I’ve been using Paypal for some 5 – 6 years to date no problems, until today when I had my first dealings with their Customer Hate Department.
     After reading some of the horrific problems others have had I thought I’d share my quite minor one in comparison.

     I purchased an item from an online company on the 30th April and used Paypal as the means of payment. On the 4th of May I received an e-mail from this company there computer systems were wrong, they had no stock and no idea when they would get any, so they cancelled the transaction. Today I check my bank balance and found I had gone overdrawn, an amount of nearly £300 had been withdrawn by Paypal on the 5th of May, the day after the transaction had been cancelled. I checked my Paypal account the money was not there. I contacted the Customer Hate Department and was informed because the transaction had already commenced they could not stop it and was inform the money is somewhere in their system. I was then informed it should appear in my Paypal account by next Wednesday the 11th of May. I know it normally takes 3 to 4 days to get the money from my Palpay account to my own account I suspect it will be the following week before I have access to my own money.

     What I don’t understand if the transaction has been cancelled, surely the removal of funds from my account, without my approval is theft?
121. Sam Deeks says:
     May 7, 2011 at 11:15 pm

     Hi Mark – thanks for the comment.

     So the money’s gone from your bank to PayPal but not as far as your PP account? Nifty. I wouldn’t connect those people to my bank account for love or money!

     In fairness, this is how it seems to go. Millions of people using PP and finding it ok – until they have a problem, then PP is satan itself. Seems to be the way of online businesses: just focus on the 90% that goes right and sod the rest because they’re divided, isolated, sat at home on their computers not backed up by any consumer bodies. I have a feeling it’s going to carry on this way, too.

     Theft? I don’t know. They’re given authority to take the money under normal circumstances and they have a right to argue that this situation was abnormal – i.e. something went wrong resulting in them taking the money despite the transaction being cancelled.

     What will be interesting is how long it take them to get it back to you.
122. barry buckley says:
     May 11, 2011 at 1:19 pm

     check out: http://paypalukproblems.blogspot.com/

     Hi my name is Barry and this blog is to tell the world how paypal have ruined my business and my life.

     About 4 years ago i started to use eBay and paypal to make a living full time in the UK, and it worked yes there were a few problems as i had never worked for myself before, i.e packages going missing so a couple of customers complained, but as the more experience i got the better my service got and i was making a lot of money so decided after 3 months that i could make a decent living a provide for my children and wife full time using eBay and paypal, i was about to set myself up as a proper registered business and was looking at shops to let to expand my business as there was no room working from home anymore.

     Whilst i was looking for somewhere a friend asked me to sell his girlfriend’s handbag on eBay, so i said OK and i listed it and eBay then removed it for copyright infringement saying it was fake, so i emailed eBay and resisted it saying it was real and i could provide a credit card receipt from New York USA, they then removed it and banned me for 1 month, so i phoned up and complained ( this was when you couldn’t talk to them on the phone but i got the head office and powerseller number as i was a powerseller before i was banned) and then after kicking off on the phone that turned into a 12 month ban then a lifetime ban, i know i shouldn’t have kicked off on the phone but i was very angry as i wasn’t selling fake items, then it turned into a lifetime ban from eBay, now this is where today’s problems start, within 10 minutes from getting a lifetime ban from eBay paypal emaild me saying they were closing my account and don’t want to do business with me again giving me the famous parting of ways email.

     So i left eBay and paypal and ever since have been trying to make money without using eBay which is very hard and ultimately failed i tried Amazon ebid etc which are no good

     So now i find myself on benefits and would like to start my eBay business up again so i can come off benefits and work for myself again, so i emailed eBay in December 2010 and they said yes i can have my account back and reinstated me ( i was shocked as i had emailed them Evey 6 months since and they said no you are banned for life) i thought yes my problems are over but sill had paypal to sort out.

     So i am allowed to use eBay again, but here’s the problem these days to sell on eBay you need to use paypal so if you dont have paypal you can’t sell on eBay, if eBay allowed google checkout or nochex etc then i would just use them but they don’t as eBay own payapl.

     I have emailed paypal again and again and just get the same automated response your account is permanently limited this decision can not be removed etc

     so as of today i have complained to the financial ombudsman service, i have emailed paypal every day and am collecting every piece of information on my situation i can to give to my solicitor to see if there’s anything they can do.

     Basically i need eBay but to use eBay you need paypal,i have offered to have a retained balance etc but they wont respond

     if anyone has had a similar situation please reply or call me on [number available on request] or if you can help please i need you r help to get this situation sorted asap
123. Nicola says:
     May 27, 2011 at 10:06 pm

     Hi everyone,

     I recently started a business with a £10,000 loan from family, that sounds risky but I thought that nothing could go wrong. My plan was to sell tablet pc’s, I have a contact in China who can get them for me, they also supplied me with memory cards. The tablet pc’s were generic so there is no issue of fakes like you hear about all the time from China.

     Anyway I started selling them after making my first order with the supplier and they really just flew off the shelf, I got three times the amount of orders I initially expected and this grew! I was so happy and was planning how I was going to spend all the money I was going to make.

     I had a few reports of damaged items and in these cases I would either replace or refund. I sell through ebay so know that its best to just keep the customer happy most of the time to avoid negative feedback or ebay disputes, I also offer a 12 month warranty on all products which is backed up by the supplier.

     Anyway as I’m selling away working 16 hours a day for the past month today I get a message from Paypal when trying to log in saying my account has been limited. My current balance is £5000 which is a big chunk of my business and crucial at this early stage (only been doing this just over a month). I called Paypal up and they said I need to send documents in, when I asked them why the account has been limited they said it’s because I’m selling electronics and they are high risk. If you think electronics are high risk then why does ebay and paypal allow this in the first place??? would have much preferred they blocked my account after the first 1-5 sales, it would have been much less of a problem. Incidentally I have no bad feedback and no paypal disputes!!!

     I have read on so many forums now that whatever documents you send in Paypal will definitely block your account for 180 days. If I knew this going in I would have never put my business in the hands of some faceless company that makes up its own rules with other people’s money. I owe suppliers, the Royal Mail and ironically eBay fees which I can’t pay while my account is limited. (what a joke considering ebay are the ones indirectly holding my money).

     My business is now ruined, I cannot borrow more money (would you lend me money after i’ve just lost £5000?) This is stopping my business growing into the big organisation it could have been, all my plans are out the window and this is the worst i’ve ever felt in my whole life. I don’t know what to do now and am crying as I write this, I now have to tell my brother who invested the money (who was expecting a return on his investment) that he will have to wait 6 months just to get his money back without any profit. I can’t believe this and will never use ebay or paypal again in my life!
124. Sam Deeks says:
     May 28, 2011 at 12:42 pm

     Nicola, that’s just awful. I’m so sorry to hear it. Starting a business is risky enough without having to deal with a ‘bank’ that locks your money away on a whim and destroys your cashflow and working capital.

     I keep saying that somebody at some point has to make a big noise about this beyond just sharing your views in forums (which I know you’re forced to do because there’s nobody else to listen!). If I were you (literally) I would make it my business to find a way to make that story national news. I’d be on to business journalists across the country either in mainstream print media and/or influential blogs.

     Do you know anyone in PR? Anyone who could prepare you a press release you can get email to journos?

     I don’t right now but I’ll have a look at my contacts in LinkedIn for you.
125. Nicola says:
     May 28, 2011 at 6:43 pm

     Hi and thanks for the reply Sam,

     I wish I did know anyone that could help put the word out, this is so terrible and at the momment I’m just sitting here and I don’t know what to do.

     I am sure that the bigger companies on ebay are treated completely differently, I guess they can do what they want to nobody’s like me and that is sad. I would have thought that the government would prevent things like this occuring, I ran the business so well, kept detailed records and keep getting praise (even now) from customers about the great service they received from me. The business could have possibly grown into a big company employing people here in the UK and paying tax to the government, If I were part of the Department of Trade and Industry as you mentioned in your article I would be furious that one company is crushing so much potential for no reason at all.

     I have been reading today about this and have never heared of anyone who’s had their account re-instated after it being limited. I am shocked at the horror stories and am really going to get something going with the support of all those that have suffered unfair treatment at the hand of Paypal. I am not the kind of person that will let this go so Paypal picked on the wrong person.

     I can understand that Paypal should shut down people involved in fraud, money laundering, selling prohibited items etc but I don’t even come close to that category. I do not have even one bad feedback for any of the tablet pc’s I sold and my ebay record is good so I can’t get my head around why they would do this. Incidently I forgot to mention that this all happened the same day I tried to withdraw £4000 from my balance. Coincidence?
126. Sam Deeks says:
     May 28, 2011 at 10:28 pm

     Good for you Nicola. Keep us posted will you?
127. Tommy Fitt says:
     May 30, 2011 at 1:33 pm

     Hello Nicola—sorry to hear of your problems,seems as though big brother is getting too big for his boots doesn’t it ? Along with thousands of other people I’ve had problems getting any money out of them as well –did manage to speak to an Indian fella once –sounded like a call centre based in India -but could have been anywhere-and simply got the run around–

     Anyway –cut it as short as possible–I got the hump and started digging to trace them–paypal–and take the small claims court route–seems as if they move about an awful lot –no wonder they cant pay people what they owe –they’re spending it all on moving expenses trying to remain untraceable–finished up going to the buisness registrations people-here in England–and what I came up with I had the summons sent to– the address –which is the one registered currently–is paypal Europe limited–Whittaker house–Whittaker Avenue–Richmond– Surrey -TWG 1EH–and the “chief financial officer” is registered as a David Graham Clarke of 3 Woodside Rd New Malden Surrey KT3 3AH—

     Dont know if it’ll help but might save a bit of messing about if you decide that you’re sick of waiting on their non-existant good graces–I somehow get the impression that there are large bonuses being paid to work on the pre-supposition of “keep messing them about and eventually they’ll give up and go away” What other reason would they so determinedly attempt to ignore the obvious for?

     Anyhow wish you and all the other people luck with it –I haven’t heard their answer yet–they get 14 days to respond to the claim –but I’ll waste the 35 quid for no answer just to let the slimy toerags know that they’re not completly beyond trace –and a few more quid on bailiffs after that if necessary–because like a lot of others I hate the arrogant way people –asking for their own money–are being treated by what are -in essence- a pack of parasites trying to hide behind an electronic shield of invisibility– while at the same time ensuring their hand never leaves your pocket.

     All the best —Tommy
128. Sam Deeks says:
     May 30, 2011 at 2:47 pm

     Tommy, thank you.

     I’ve edited the start of the (above) post in your honour.

     I can confirm that Mr. David Clarke of Kingston is the VP & CFO Europe at PayPal (Europe) Ltd.

     Worth joining LinkedIn for http://www.linkedin.com/in/dgclarke
129. DJ says:
     May 31, 2011 at 12:09 pm

     Interestingly, on May 1st 2011 the new “E-Money” regulations came into effect. Whilst initially it looks to be focused on things like the Oyster card etc., it does however cover “electronic pre-paid accounts for use online”. Given that there is such a concept of a “PayPal Balance” which you can apply funds to, which can be spent with PayPal merchants, it looks like PayPal is covered by these new regulations.

     I haven’t read through the rest of the document, it would be interesting to see if there’s anything which can be used to hold PayPal to account.

     http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/What/International/emoney/index.shtml

     Enjoy
130. david whittles says:
     June 14, 2011 at 6:37 am

     i have fell victim again not for the first time to the dreaded paypal chargeback, this time for £700 for money that was never even cleared into my account, was refunded because i suspected the person to be fraudulent but 7 weeks after the transaction i have had a mysterious chargeback from the person leaving me with a £700 neg balance, as usual paypal have done nothing i cant even contact them tried twice for an hour on hold but just gave up… what a bunch of thieving bastards !!
131. Nicola says:
     June 15, 2011 at 10:09 am

     I have some good news, Paypal reviewed my account and now it is once again active. I am really relieved but am still angry that Paypal decided to hold all of my money for 2 weeks, I barely managed to pay all my companies bills. I would urge any new business to use Paypal with caution, I would give any business the following tips when using Paypal.

     1. Withdraw money regularly, don’t let too much money accumulate in the account because this money could be held at any time as per their terms and conditions for over 6 months!!!

     2. Use other payment services where possible, if you have a merchant account you will be treated differently and can charge credit cards directly, it may be more costly but then again in the long term you can get lower rates and faster access to your money. Biggest bonus though is not relying solely on Paypal who can stop your entire business at their whim.

     3. If you sell on ebay make sure you also have an online presence in form of a website and maybe even an actual shop if possible, relying solely on Paypal and ebay is asking for trouble.

     4. Open a business account and when signing up estimate your sales alot higher than what you expect, this way Paypal don’t have the excuse of your business performing better than expected all of a sudden (which is what they said to me). I’ve also heared that you are less likely to be reviewed if you have a business account but it does require more information from the beginning.

     5. If you sell products where you may have to give a high number of refunds beware, Paypal will flag this as suspicious activity for some reason. (even though I would have thought refunding your customers was the opposite of suspicious).

     6. If the company is a partnership or has some kind of shared ownership open up a different Paypal account in one of the partners names (or maybe even 3 or 4). Verify these accounts also. This will help if one account is suddenly limited because you will have another account to use to continue your sales instead of sitting on dead stock for up to six months.

     If you follow these tips you might just get lucky and stay off Paypal’s radar and if not and they do limit your account you should be in a position to wheater the storm. Please don’t take these tips lightly as they may save your business.
132. Sam Deeks says:
     June 15, 2011 at 11:49 am

     Great advice, Nicola – thank you!
133. Hanna Florette says:
     June 20, 2011 at 6:42 pm

     The guys at FreshenUp.com helped me out.
134. G MARTIN says:
     June 21, 2011 at 9:50 pm

     Ahhhhh paypal….wonderful place if you want to loose money, Ebay insists you use it then they take 5% “thanks” cheque would have cost nothing …then you get some one complain and paypal freezes that amount including postage even though you state no refund on postage ..and payapl’s definition of as they so politely out it “held” is THE MONEY IS BEING HELD, PENDING REVERSAL!..so great for fraudulent buyers, as i have one who said item damaged and was covered by recorded delivery insurance which he is claiming off too, FRAUD..paypal refuses to attend to this saying they are holding the money for Ebay…conspiring with another body to defraud me ……..or is that what banks do? and get away with it?
     after we gave all our authority away to Luxembourg even our common laws
     Reminds me of a little man with moustache who invaded Poland.
135. ben says:
     June 22, 2011 at 11:59 am

     Hi

     I’ve had a recent dispute with paypal/ebay they decided to freeze my account as it was considered high risk ok fair enough do what needs to be done then get me active again I said as id done absolutely nothing wrong. i’ve complied with everything they wanted me to do but that still hasn’t stopped them from keeping my money and account frozen.

     my complaint is more about the way they can ruin your ebay business and businesses alike at moments notice.

     Not only have they froze the ebay account and paypal they have decided to send out 100 messages to all my recent customers on ebay stating “your recent item purchased on what ever date it was, has been removed from the listing please contact the seller or failing that open a dispute.

     Now all of these items have been shipped as normal but paypal are holding the money even know the items have been shipped and will arrive as normal. not only but that now because of there poor procedure they have caused me to lose feedback on over 100 listings made me have to reply to over 100 messages and caused me to have to claim back all the small fees for £2 -£3 products as they decide to just refund to cusomters that even though the customer has received it.

     I really do not know how they are allowed to mess with peoples lively hoods like this its simply not fair and i’m clearly not the only one with a problem something needs to be done but will it probably not as all these big corporations get away with murder and nothings ever done.
136. Mike says:
     June 28, 2011 at 3:34 am

     PyPal summed up :

     The truth is Ben, that PayPal aren’t bothered about the effect they may have on peoples businesses. 28 days after ‘limiting’ my account they now have £50,000 of my money and they haven’t had the manners to email me, phone me or start to review the case. I know what your thinking – ‘he must have done something serious to warrant Paypal taking this action’ – nope – PayPal’s reason,’a spike in sales triggered a risk assessment inquiry’.

     so what can someone do to resolve a dispute with PayPal – absolutely nothing. I sent all the information the day that they requested it and they haven’t started to begin the review.

     so what can someone do about complaining about Paypal – absolutely nothing. Paypal complaint emails are never read, the FSA don’t look into individual cases, the financial ombudsman will only look to resolve cases that involve financial loss and any other body tells you to get in touch with the above 3.

     in short Paypal can do what they like, take as long as they like and they will keep you totally in the dark about your case. There is no communication what so ever and at the end of it all (whenever that may be) they will keep your money for as long as they like.

     PayPal, wrecking businesses – Why, because they can
137. Neil says:
     June 30, 2011 at 12:13 pm

     Hi,

     I have read with interest the complaints on this forum and must say that I too have suffered under the paypal curse. I trained as a lawyer in the UK although don’t practise anymore, and my advice is to all of you who have money stuck in Paypal for no good reason is to issue a County Court summons against them. It must be served on their registered office. Paypal UK Limited are registered under company number 05468033 and have their registered offices in Richmond, Surrey.

     A simple online search at companies house will reveal the correct address (its free). You can issue a summons online just google HMCS and then complete the online form.Look for “online claims”on their website. It will cost you about £35.00 this is obviously depending on how much money they owe you. The summons will be served on Paypal by the court. You don’t have to do anything. Paypal will have to issue a defence and explain in why they are holding money. If they don’t file a defence you have the right to enter a judgement in default. Just access your HMCS account and the Court will advise you of the date you can enter judgement. After judgement has been entered you will be able to issue a Warrant of Execution for about £50.00 and send the Bailiffs in!!

     If Paypal defend the action, the HMCS will transfer the proceedings from Northampton Bulk Centre (where all online summons are issued) to your local court. All you have to do is complete the Case Allocation Questionaire which is a very simple form given by the Court, send it back to the court and you will be given a hearing date.

     You attend on the allotted day and put your case to the District Judge. You do not need to be legally quailifed to appear before him. You simply explain the circumtances of your case what Paypal have done and he will make a judgment.

     If they attend they likewise can put their side of events. If he finds in your favour then he will grant you a judgment together with costs (ie. what you paid for the summons in the first place)and interest on your money.

     If he finds against you, well at least you know why they hold your money. If they fail to attend the District Judge will give you judgment in default. You can give paypal 7 days to comply with the judgement or send in the bailiffs. If the amount is substantial ie over £750.00 with a Judgement you can wind them up with a Companies Winding up Petition. Its more complicated than issuing a summons but the Courts will assist you in anyway they can. A Court Judgement will be listed against Paypal by Courts with companies like Equifax if the Judgement goes upaid for 28 days.

     The more people who issue summones against Paypal the more likely they will change their procedures. The internet can work in a variety. It would be really iroinc if someone issued a summons against paypal and paid the Courts fees using their paypal account.

     One final point, I have read Paypals Terms and Conditions of Trading and I beleive that they are grossly unfair and result in a breach of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. You can look this up by typing it into google. They also agreed to use the laws of England.

     Don’t be scared let them have it, surely it’s our turn to use the law against Paypal.
138. Sam Deeks says:
     July 1, 2011 at 5:12 pm

     Neil, thanks for your comment and taking the time to share your experience with others.

     Great advice. I’ve turned it into a PDF and will put a link to it at the top of this post.

     Disgruntled PayPal customers! Take to the battlements & follow Neil’s advice! Report back.
139. Mike says:
     July 1, 2011 at 5:35 pm

     A couple of points Neil, mine is the post above your original post. Is there an upper limit on the size of a claim through the county court? Also if the case is found in their favor is there a limit on the amount of costs that they may seek?
140. Neil says:
     July 2, 2011 at 9:26 am

     Hi Mike,

     Claims for £50,000 or under can be issued in the County Court. However, normally claims for £5,000 or under are the norm. These are called “small claims” and as such apart from minor expenses costs are not normally awarded. Obviously if you have issued a summons and loose then you do not recover your court costs from the other side. Generally speaking District Judges do not award costs save for costs incurred for issuing the summons. However, a person can be penalised if the Court proceedings lack merit or are vexatious. Then, subject to the rules of court the District Judge has discretion to award costs. So basically, if you have a small claim and you loose, apart from minor expenses there is no other financial penalty.

     If a claim is above £5,000 then it can be allocated to the “fast track” or “multi track” system and as such costs can be awarded against the Claimant if the case is lost. Mike, to be honest Paypal cannot just impound Money for the sake of it unless of course there is a question of fraud or dishonesty, then perhaps they could say they are protecting a purchaser. But if they have just frozen money without good reason then issue proceedings. A £50,000 claim will cost about £400.00 to issue. If you do claim, then also claim interest, which is about 8% and is called statutory interest, and can be calculated from the moment they froze the account. I sincerely doubt that they would be earning 8%. Make sure you calculate interest on a daily basis eg. £50,000×8% divided by 365 = £10.95 per day. Even money claims for £50,000 can be done without a Solicitor.

     Neil
141. Mike says:
     July 4, 2011 at 12:53 am

     Hi Neil, you obviously have a good legal knowledge and you have looked at the cases above with interest probably because, as you state in your previous post, ‘you have suffered the Paypal curse’. However it surprises me when you say in the post above, ‘Mike, to be honest Paypal cannot just impound Money for the sake of it unless of course there is a question of fraud or dishonesty, then perhaps they could say they are protecting a purchaser.’

     Now I certainly aren’t suggesting that you are saying that we may have been doing something fraudulent or dishonest and this is not my point. My Point is that even though you are in a position of knowledge both about the law and about the workings of Paypal, you like many others probably don’t realise the full extent of what PayPal get away with which was the reason for me posting on here originally.

     To put you in the picture my business runs a web marketing company that serves many clients. We also sell our own products and services one of which is a seasonal product of low value which attracts virtually no fraud. Sales of this product took off and and in April a limitation was put on the account by PayPal because of a ‘spike’ in sales (to be expected from a seasonal product). This limitation was resolved relatively quickly and we continued to trade.

     Because we are very good at on-line marketing, sales increased then without warning a limitation was put on the account over a month ago. PayPal indicated that they needed certain information and the inquiry would take between 24 and 72 hours. The information was supplied and a week later further information was asked for. This time I was told that because I had reached a certain level of sales the enquiry had been triggered to assess PayPal’s risk! the email said it could take up to 14 days for the case to be reviewed. 18 days later I was told that until there were no disputes showing on the account the review wouldn’t begin. PayPal processed over a thousand transactions for us last month so there will always be someone saying their account has been used with out their permission or a genuine no delivery claim. Will the review ever begain? I wasnt inspired with confidence when the last conversation with the call center the guy said ‘prepare for the worst PayPal could close your account and keep your money for 180 days from the date of your last transaction’ ! unbelievable but entirely true.

     Hopefully by reading this potential or current customers of PayPal will be made aware of what can happen through no fault of their own and without any warning. I am not slagging PayPal off here, that isn’t the point of these posts, what I would like to achieve is to make people more aware of what may go wrong through no fault of there own.

     3 months ago I would have been of the same opinion as you Neil that unless someone acted fraudulently or dishonestly PayPal cannot simply impound their money. Unfortunately I am now living proof that they can and that they do.

     BEWARE!
142. Sam Deeks says:
     July 4, 2011 at 1:39 am

     Mike, thanks for that. I think you’re right – it’s hard to imagine PayPal could be doing this stuff – unless you’re in it yourself.
     Great comment. Might interes you to know that I was contacted a couple of weeks ago by a journalist from Which? who is writing a piece on EBay / PayPal. His focus was chargeback fraud but he was very interested in this ‘account freezing’ issue. His piece should be out soon – he said I could quote freely from it and would send me the link (should be soon).
143. Mike says:
     July 4, 2011 at 4:45 pm

     Mod – would it be possible to forward the contact details of the reporter from Which? alternatively I would be happy for you to pass my email address to him
144. Sam Deeks says:
     July 4, 2011 at 9:45 pm

     Mike, I’ll try to find his details and send yours on if I can
145. Peter says:
     July 6, 2011 at 7:59 am

     It seems that Paypal can do almost anything they like. Charge what they like and make the rules up as they go along.
     I am in a situation which is as such not a serious one but annoying
     to say the least.
     I have a paypal account (linked to Their Mother company Ebay)
     I also have credit card facilities with them.
     Last month On paypal I took a Certain amount that was just above the treshold which changed the interest rate they charge.
     I was over by £111.82 ( I have downloaded the monthly sales report an the amount is quite clearly at the bottom)
     Paypal say that First I was £500 below the amount then they say I am £100 below so not elegable for the lower rate.
     I have even copy and pasted the report to them but they are not interested in the least.
     It seem from a company that makes 100s Millions profit every year they are so scrooge like in their position. No matter that I am right they are not interested.
     If they think I am going to leave it thy have a nother thought coming. The expression Dog with a bone comes to mind.
146. Neil says:
     July 8, 2011 at 10:02 am

     Hi,

     Mike with specific reference to your case. I would just issue a Writ or summons against them. In your Particulars of claim you should say that they have, without cause, limited your account and refused you access to your funds. Moreover their limitation clause is in breach of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.
147. Mike says:
     July 10, 2011 at 8:30 am

     How Bizarre!:

     Just to update you, I spoke to the call center Saturday morning when a woman with a bad attitude said that the review team started to look at my case and and would now be 28 days before any further action would be taken! – this was devastating news

     I then made the decision to take legal action on Monday, not make a claim that they would dispute and delay but an injunction/writ, on the basis that the sooner I started the sooner I would get the money back.

     I then rang the call center back but was put through to the wrong department. When I was transferred back the guy I spoke to defiantly knew more about my case than anyone else I had spoken to. I told him that I had been told it was going to take 4 weeks and that I was been forced to take legal action on Monday. He then said something strange – ‘I will review your case, speak to a supervisor and will ring you back this afternoon’ – because he spoke differently to anyone else in the Irish call center I half believed him. 3o mins later he called back and said that someone would deffinaitly ring form the Merchant Risk Management center on Monday. Again I half believed him as it was the first time anyone at PayPal had actually kept to their word and done what they said.

     2 hours later I got an email -’your limitation had been removed …… thank you for your patience’ :0

     Happy days but it begs the question – what actually happened? The Merchant Risk Management department only work Monday to Friday 8:00 to 6:00 so who made the decisions and who did I speak to who was able to prompt a descision when the department dealing with my case werent actually working. Maybe someone from PayPal, who will definaitly monitor sites like this, could answer.

     My case highlights 2 important points:
     1. PayPal customer services is a complete sham
     2. customers need to be made more aware of the potential hazzards of using PayPal
148. Mike says:
     July 13, 2011 at 8:51 am

     PLEASE READ AND TAKE NOTE – THIS IS WHAT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!!!

     (my original post was on 28th June 2011)

     Having had a limitation in place for 7 weeks the relief of it being lifted lasted only 3 days. Yesterday the limitation was re-imposed. The information that PayPal want now is the tracking numbers of 5 random orders that were placed yesterday. Not a problem supplying the tracking information but looking at what might happen next is quite worrying.
     What possible use could this information do to assess anything to do with my account?
     So all PayPal has done is found a spurious reason to place keep the limitation on my account. Is this the way that the FSA wants a regulated bank to to operate?
149. Sam Deeks says:
     July 13, 2011 at 5:51 pm

     Hi Mike. I’m trying to find that Which? journo’s number… will let you know if I can find it.
150. Lisa says:
     July 15, 2011 at 6:10 am

     Hi Sam. I have a slight problem with paypal but I don’t know how to solve it. I haven’t been able to access my account for a couple of months due to the random security measures that require my credit card number. The problem is that I’ve closed my credit card years ago and no longer have it. I did send several emails to paypal so they would let me use my bank account and debit card to re-verify (?) my account and lift the random security blockage. They never respond. What should I do?
151. Sam Deeks says:
     July 16, 2011 at 1:25 am

     Blimey. I have no idea, Lisa – sorry. I have a similar problem involving a duplicate LinkedIn profile connected to an email account I no longer have so I can’t sign in to delete the profile because I can’t remember my password, and I can’t get my password because the reset link can only be sent to the email account registered to the LinkedIn account.. which, of course, no longer exists…
152. Tim Hughes says:
     July 17, 2011 at 1:44 pm

     I was new to ebay/paypal when starting to use the website 2years ago. A buyer bought an electrical item, collected it in person after paying with paypal. He was a frauster who then reversed his payment and kept my item. I lost £358. Being new to this scene and being told I had to accept paypal (otherwise naturally I would have only taken cash for my item) I trusted Paypal to deal with this fraud, however they did not just nothing but absolutely nothing. I am now reading of all these horror stories, is there any way to stop ebay from forcing sellers to accept this horrible payment serivce, after all, if buyers really want to pay with paypal they can avoid sellers that don’t accept it.

     Is it also too late to try and claim against paypal for the reversal that lost me £358, does anyone know? Thanks in advance.
153. Neil says:
     July 19, 2011 at 11:00 am

     Hi Tim,

     The time limit for recovery of monies under a simple contract is 6 years. Therefore,you are able to issue proceeding against paypal.
154. Tim Hughes says:
     July 22, 2011 at 1:13 pm

     Thank you Neil, I will give them a phone call and try to get my money back.
155. Mohamed A Ali says:
     August 8, 2011 at 2:01 am

     I made a claim and send all documentations requested on time to paypal. unfortunately paypal sent me an email saying we closed the claim because we didn’t received the documents within frametime. I proved everything that I sent the documents on time by showing emails recieved saying we got the documents and we will process. Please can you help me how to complain this horrible attitude from paypal?
156. Amir says:
     August 9, 2011 at 1:17 pm

     Basically it seems that everyone gets the same problem with paypal, they just dont care try too. Unfortunately we are all just a small minority in the amount of customers it has. However that doesn’t mean they should and I think we should all try and do our bes to try and help this situation.

     As I sell through ebay and the majority of my business is done through ebay paypal have a responsibility allow people like me to use their service without worry or a valid justification as to why they closed my account.

     I was advised to try an speak with a local MP regarding this matter as they have effectively closed my business. Weather or not this will help I do not know yet as i am waiting for a response.

     I have also spoke with the Financial Ombudsmen and will be making further complaints with teh help of this article. However the likelihood ids that I will not get my account re-instated.

     I may try and use a friend name and account to see what happens.
157. neil says:
     August 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm

     Amir

     This is typical of Paypal they simply reply on their clause 10 in their Legal Agreements to do whatever they wish to do with your account without proper notification, and without giving proper reasoning. They act as Judge, Jury and Executioner. They simply give you a resolution number and when you ring they normally say that they have elevated your concern to the back office. The next thing you get is an e-mail saying that your “Appeal is denied”. I am at present suing Paypal from breach of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. If they are holding any of your money then issue proceedings against them. Whilst I appreciate that complaining to the Ombudsman is the correct thing to do, all too often they lack formal enforcement powers to enforce their decisions. Whereas, the District Judges in a County Court can make orders which have to be obeyed, those that don’t obey or refuse to obey are in comtempt of Court and can face serious punishment.
158. stu says:
     August 15, 2011 at 4:47 pm

     hi, im in uk, paypal limited my account saying simularities. probably because my 2 daughters also have paypal accounts at same address. I reported them to FSA. they agreed to reinstate if i provide a photo id & credit card statement which i did but why couldnt they have asked for these in first place…i you got a complaint with paypal in uk, report it on line to FSA…kick these clowns into touch
159. Aziz says:
     August 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm

     Hi, I made my first ever purchase on ebay with paypal in 2009. I sold a free phone I recieved on an upgraded contract. A buyer purchased the item on ebay, and I saw the funds get transfered into my account. The buyer lived locally so I agreed to meet him and give him the item as he wanted it urgently. When I returned home after having successfully sold my first every ebay item via paypal, I then quite satisfied by the whole experience decided to transfer my fund for the phone into my bank account. Then shortly after to my horror paypal contacted me to inform the that my account was now suspended due to suspicious activity, the card used by the buyer had been stolen. They reversed the bank transaction so the money went back to who ever the person was who genuinely owned the card – as it had been stolen. I didnt have a major problem with this although I was upset, ok I had now given my phone away to the fraudster but that was life, I was more concerned about the person who had their card stolen.

     Paypal then demanded that I validate myself to use their services again. I was so upset by the whole experience I never had any desire to sell on ebay again and use paypal, that is until recently, when I bought some costly software that interfaces into paypal. My account with Paypal was still on lockdown and required validating, so I proceeded to answer all of their tedious questions on getting re-validated with Paypal. It then went to a senior agent after I had completed all of the steps, and she simply emailed me back saying that I had been banned indefinitely for life due to excessive risk involved, and there was virutally no chance ever getting it reactivated and that they simply wanted to part ways with me. They argued that an email would have been sent to me by them authorising that it was ok to transfer the sum I had recieved or they would have put the funds on hold (which they didnt and should have done), and the fact that I had transfered the sum before recieving the email was reason for them to ban me for life on my first every experience buying anything through paypal. I defended myself vigirously arguing that I had no idea about this email that they would have sent me, as far as I was concerned that the money that had been sent to me was kocher and hence it was ok for me to transfer it into my account. How on earth am I meant to know whether a buyer is purchsing my item with ill gotten or legitamate money, and then to penalise me aftewards for the rest of my life is insane!!

     I can’t believe they have treated me like this, especially given I havent done anything wrong and it was my first every experience with them. I have a totally clean record and work in the City where I have been thoroughly vetted by corporations, why would I even dream of a scam like this.

     What should I do as paypal is involved in everything and the expensive software I have bought requires it to work?
     Thanks in advance
160. Sam Deeks says:
     August 22, 2011 at 5:08 pm

     Aziz, I’m sorry I can’t advise you what to do on this. It sounds pretty outrageous to me. Banned for the rest of your life!! These people are outrageous. Personally, I’d either take it to the media and make a full-on stink or else I’d stop having anything to do with PayPal (regardless of what I need it for). I did. I won’t touch it personally.
161. John says:
     August 24, 2011 at 1:37 pm

     My case is worse than anyone.
     I started selling a new product on ebay and the response was unbelievable . So I purchased around 500 unit of goods from China and paid customs duty postal etc and sold all these 500 unit sold on ebay and paypal was the only option accepting money.
     Paypal limited my account when I had £8,478.69 pence MY HARD Earned money ,Had to pack each unit and send to customers , sleepless nights etc..I supplied everything paypal asked ,finally they said ,I dont need to supply anything more and business with me is risky so they limited my account FOREVER and I will get the £ 8,478.69 after 180 days that means after 6 months .
     Yes I got my money after 180 days but account is still limited .
     what on earth they limited my account GOD ONLY KNOWS.
     Imagine they are holding your money for 180 days for nothing ..

     Please leave paypal ,or they will screw you oneday for NO REASON
162. Sam Deeks says:
     August 24, 2011 at 5:07 pm

     JOhn, I agree with you 100%. But it’s like people riding motorcycles without full leather / armour to protect them. The only people who don’t are people who haven’t YET had a serious accident. Same with PayPal. The minute you realise they’re crooks, you want to find an alternative but you, like everyone else, weren’t bothered up to that point. I’m not blaming you, but you can see how they operate. So long as they have 150+million people depending on them who HAVEN’T yet been screwed, they’ll carry on making big profits without spending on good customer service.

     And while nobody is really regulating them, they’ll also carry on holding your money for 6 months and doing who knows what with the interest?
163. nikki says:
     September 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm

     I recently made purchases on e-bay through pay pal
     The chash was in my bank and was paid to the e-bay seller
     I have received my items and now pay pal have said I owe
     Them £90! I have tried to contact them a few times on there
     Premium rate number but to no avail! I’m not made of
     Money so I have given up!!! And I thought pay pal
     We’re a trustworthy company ah well that’s my faith in
     Society crushed and there was me thinking we were out
     Of the dark ages
164. steve atkins says:
     September 13, 2011 at 1:23 pm

     I have not read all the thread I will however when I have more time.

     One thing I suggest if I may for this site is to put a link on the new government website get 100,000 people to sign up to it and it gets debated in parliament.
     Thay may make pay pal sit up and take note
165. Sam Deeks says:
     September 13, 2011 at 7:06 pm

     That, Steve, is a great idea.
166. gerito says:
     September 17, 2011 at 10:26 am

     Nikki – I notice that you mention using PayPal’s “premium rate number”. It may be a small economy, but 020 8610 0150 connects to them directly – just ask for customer services.
     If my experience as a small private buyer is any guide, dealing with them is a total waste of time but you may have better luck.
167. gerito says:
     September 17, 2011 at 12:32 pm

     Some 25 or 30 years ago, when I first started to use a computer and the internet, I was persuaded to open an account with PayPal, probably when making a purchase from a seller who used their service. Maybe I was even more naive than I am now, but I think that I learned soon afterwards that not everyone thought it was an entirely satisfactory service. Until now I have been able to make numerous purchases on line (none via eBay) without using PayPal.

     Meanwhile, my email address was changed more than once by my broadband supplier before I moved to a better company and changed it again. Now in my eighties, my PayPal password is lost in the mists of time.

     Earlier this week I was trying to buy a well recommended item I needed from its only supplier and not to use PayPal which the supplier strongly preferred and, to my surprise, apparently could tell that I had a PayPal account. Still taking the available route of paying by credit card my order was accepted and confirmed as paid for by an email to me, though I have still to receive the goods!

     The experience prompted me to try to close and permanently cancel my PayPal account. Trying to do that through their website was a time consuming and intensely frustrating experience but, eventually, I was given the telephone number of their Dublin customer relations office. As dealing directly with a human being seemed preferable to the entirely automated system on the website, I thought the cost of the call would be worthwhile.

     It was not, as the cheerful Irishman to whom I spoke gave me an email address (service@paypal.com) to which, he said, I should simply send my request to cancel my account and it would be done. Not so. The “autoresponse” I got was to say that “they” could not respond directly to email sent to this address, and I was given various directions how to deal with my problem via the website. Again, these proved to be useless. At least he told me that my recent purchase was paid through a PayPal “guest account” – whatever that is.

     Finally I found this address: from which a reply offered assistance in closing my account if I would: fax us the following documentation:

     1. A copy of your current driving license. The license must show your current address.
     2. Proof of address such as a utility bill or bank statement that shows your current address.
     3. If you no longer live at the address registered to the account,[which I haven't done for about 14 years & will not have kept any inessential documents from that time]you must also provide a copy of a document such as a utility bill or bank
     statement that shows your former address.
     4. Documentation must be faxed to:
     • 08707-303-199
     • Attn: Password – Close Account

     Note: Please enter the email address registered to the account on the cover sheet to ensure we are able to locate the relevant account.[Ignoring the fact that I have told them that I do not know this address!]

     “For a step by step video tutorial on closing your PayPal account visit
     http://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/resources/close-a-paypal-account/” Not found on my server!!

     The final “joke” was to receive today an email from paypal@info.paypal.co.uk telling me that I have made two online payments that were processed by PayPal and inviting me to “Open a PayPal account within 44 days of the purchase you’ve just made
     That purchase is then covered under our Buyer Protection Policy”

     Somehow I think not, but I may ask what and when was the other transaction.

     It will probably be best for me now simply to let matters lie – I really have no more time to waste – and just avoid buying from anyone who insists upon using PayPal.

     After my slight difficulty and reading the accounts on this website, I can well understand the anger, frustration and even desperation of those who have had access to their business funds in PayPal blocked.
     It is admirable that there are some giving their time and energy to publicise and try to change this situation for the better.
168. Sam Deeks says:
     September 17, 2011 at 7:42 pm

     Gerito, thanks for your excellent comment. I’m considering starting one of those online petitions to make government raise this as an issue in Parliament.
169. steve atkins says:
     September 19, 2011 at 7:50 pm

     Hello just going through the same sort of thing myself with pay pal, account limitations and closures, not getting my money for 90 to 180 days.
     I have sent several e- mails and made numerous phone calls to be told a load of hog wash.

     So under the data protection act I have sent off a SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST ( google it to find out more) along with ten pounds and they have to give me all the info they hold on me and my account and any info they may have shared with a third party.

     This is my start point.

     The next step is to challenge thier terms and conditions to see if they are lawfull ( not legal but lawfull ) big difference.
     And if they want to keep my money for a period of time they may keep it BUT under my terms and conditions of which I will give notice of in due course.

     Well Here Goes
170. steve atkins says:
     September 19, 2011 at 8:17 pm

     More on SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

     In brief – what is an individual entitled to?
     This right, commonly referred to as subject access, is created by section 7 of the Data Protection Act. It is most often used by individuals who want to see a copy of the information an organisation holds about them. However, the right of access goes further than this, and an individual who makes a written request and pays a fee is entitled to be:
     •told whether any personal data is being processed;
     •given a description of the personal data, the reasons it is being processed, and whether it will be given to any other organisations or people;
     •given a copy of the information comprising the data; and
     •given details of the source of the data (where this is available).
     An individual can also request information about the reasoning behind any automated decisions, such as a computer-generated decision to grant or deny credit, or an assessment of performance at work (except where this information is a trade secret).

     they have to reply within 40 days all this info is on the ICO information commisioners website….
     It may not help but it will sure piss em off
171. Phil says:
     September 28, 2011 at 4:11 pm

     Sam,

     My partner’s paypal account has been suspended with the appeal denied. We provide full details (id, bank statements, invoices etc) as requested but due to someone setting an account up in my name and with my account details illegally (which was luckily frozen by paypal before it cost me anything) they refuse to give her an account.

     Please note her name and address is different than mine but they still linked the accounts because I am her partner.

     There was also £280 in her account which paypal have said they WILL KEPT for 120 days then she needs to claim for it, but is her money.

     surely this can not be legal what can we do?

     Thanks
172. Sam Deeks says:
     September 28, 2011 at 9:39 pm

     Hi Phil
     I’m sorry to say I don’t really know what is or isn’t legal where Paypal is concerned – or, for that matter, how you go about getting anything done. Sorry for not being able to offer any help. That’s what this thread has demonstrated: ordinary folk don’t seem able to get Paypal to do anything reasonable.
173. Phil says:
     September 29, 2011 at 5:12 pm

     just spoke to the rudest man in paypal (his name – Connor Agent number 233902) who told me that as the account is blocked we are no longer customers so he has the right not to answer any questions (great way to start a pleasent phonecall) even though they have our money still!!

     He refused to believe they where in the wrong because of the terms and conditions and that they were not regulated by the FSA and had no offices in the UK.

     He told me that because our account was having problems, that 1 dispute, and that our account was accessed from a pc that accessed another account both accounts would be blocked. He said that if Me and or partner EVER tried to open an account again he would find us!

     Oh he also got very angry (for no reason) when I told him I was recording this call stating ‘I REFUSE TO HAVE THIS CALL RECORDED BY YOU” and after I told him Paypal record the calls for training purposes he shouted ‘we can do what we like’ so I told him I was recording it for my training purpose.

     Officially sick of paypal and ebay.
174. Alan says:
     October 4, 2011 at 3:45 am

     Dear Sam, reading your post and find that you are a wonderful person and helped so many people all these years.

     I have recent been scammed by a company called Evertop Accessories (http://www.evertop.co.uk/). They sold me counterfeit Nokia battery which I demanded refund but was rejected. I paid through Paypal so I thought they could help me. Turned out I was wrong, totally wrong.

     I raised a refund request in Paypal. Paypal first asked me to send back the goods in question to the seller Evertop. I hesitated to send them to this dishonest seller but complied anyway. Ten days later Paypal closed my case as they said they couldn’t verify whether seller had received the return, even though I have produced written proof from post office.

     Then I realized I was conned once more: Paypal was actually helping their sellers to erase trouble. Now I lost my money and left with no evidence on hand to charge them for selling counterfeit goods.

     I tried to contact Paypal yesterday for reviewing my closed case. No response at all. Desperately I found your websites and read all the post. Had I read found your site earlier I wouldn’t trust Paypal, as they are actually collaborating with these scammer to send away troubled customers.

     I even send my case to Customer Direct, ICC, but in vain like the rest of us. I don’t know what more I could do now. T_T
175. Sam Deeks says:
     October 4, 2011 at 8:07 am

     Oh, Alan (*blush*) thanks for your very kind words. Sadly, I’m not even close to having a solution to this problem. All I can do is to collect together a tiny fraction of Paypal ‘customer experiences’ to illustrate to people a bit of what’s going on. Perhaps it will help someone to stop using (or never use) Paypal. Perhaps it will motivate someone to take a direct legal case against them. Who knows? My main motivation was to show that if you’re having this problem, you’re not alone – and to ask ‘how can this be acceptable?’.

     In reality, it’s acceptable… if it’s acceptable (i.e. if nobody ever takes action, then it’s to all intents and purposes acceptable). If I were ‘in power’… but hey, that’s another story.
176. Alan says:
     October 4, 2011 at 10:53 am

     Yes, I understand. Thank you very much for your help. I’m considering making similar websites to tell my story, hopefully help others to avoid scammers like Evertop and irresponsible agents like Paypal.

     Thanks!
177. gillian says:
     October 4, 2011 at 10:03 pm

     I rang 5 times customer helpline a total of 80 mins at 10p per min, the first three people I spoke to were helpful the fourth person was not!!

     The base of the problem is that money was sent to an old PayPal account not the eBay registered address I have 30days to claim this money but my hotmail address (.com) is dormant and has been for 8 years!! Therefore I cannot claim the funds

     I was asked to provide I D from Charles tele call 15th Sept 9pm but he did not ask for passport so another 4 days was wasted, when insufficient I D was faxed through ( Barclaycard bill and PayPal account) Spoken to a lovely lady on 23rd and faxed through passport as requested.

     they then agreed to send me by post a temporary password to activate my .com account I have waited 10days nothing has arrived even though both accounts have the exactly the same details which have been proven and agreed on, they refused to send my password to the .co.uk account, I have also asked if I could pay special overnight delivery as this password is coming from the Philippines the last lady who would not give her name was rude and put the phone down on me just said NO

     I have not achieved anything in over 14days and at my wits end to resolve this matter as the goods have been sent according to eBay s conditions

     I am holding PayPal responsible for this loss of money and will take further action to recover the £70.00 loss I was told to write to an address in Luxemburg if i wanted to take this matter further which due to time scale as im still within the 30days to claim,
     i am not prepared to do.

     this seems to be a reaccuring problem which nobody has an answer and this forum goes back three years where do we all go from here?
178. SR says:
     October 12, 2011 at 7:59 pm

     I’m back!

     I had problems with a frozen PayPal account last year… and I should have stopped using it at the time but didn’t as I rely on PayPal for some incoming payments. Today I received this email from PayPal:

     “Hello XXXX XXXXX,

     An electronic funds transfer from your PayPal account to your bank account was rejected today for this reason:

     Invalid Bank Account Information

     Our system was not able to process the transaction with the bank information listed on your account. You should contact your bank regarding the bank account information required for electronic funds transfers. If you still need assistance, you may email us through our secure server at https:///wf/f=act_verifyba

     Thanks for using PayPal, the world’s #1 online payment service!
     Thanks,

     PayPal”

     Except… I’ve been withdrawing money from my PayPal account to this bank account for years. I’m verified. I haven’t changed/removed/edited my bank account details and I have been successfully withdrawing money from PayPal to this same bank account at least once a week. The last transaction went through just a few days ago. There’s no problem with my bank OR the account no. so… ummm… I’m thinking I’m getting screwed over by PayPal again!
     The amount was small (these days I withdraw even a few £ immediately because I don’t want any money on the PP account in case they freeze it again) but they still charged me for returning the money to my PayPal account.
     I’m wondering if anyone’s gotten this same email.
179. SR says:
     October 14, 2011 at 10:50 am

     So, after receiving the typical copy & paste email from PayPal that didn’t actually answer my questions and did not solve the problem at all…and after another withdrawal I made on the 10th of October is still not showing on my bank account five days later and seems to have disappeared into thin air… I’ve checked the PayPayl community forums. I’m reading the UK forums: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/UK-Community/ct-p/UK

     and there are so many complaints from PayPal users arriving DAILY. I think these are meant to be helpful discussion forums but they’re full of posts from people who are waiting for their money, or have lost their money, or have their accounts limited, or are just seriously angry with PayPal.

     So we’re not alone. And I just realized, as PayPal charged me €3.00 for returning the bank transfer to my PayPal account for a reason that did not make any sense and for a “technical problem” that was not my fault, if PayPal does this, say, even to 1000 customers a day, it’s 3000 € (= US$4100) a day… and if they do it to 10 000 customers a day, it’s $41 000 a day for PayPal… and if they do it to 100 000… well you get the idea, it’s a nice little earner for PayPal and nothing we can do about it.
180. SR says:
     October 14, 2011 at 1:27 pm

     Me again (feeling weird replying to my own posts) but after emailing Europeanservices@paypal.com (so NOT the automatic “contact us” form) PayPal has refunded me the €3.00!
     I sent an email to loads of different PayPal email addresses that I picked up from a previous post halfway down this page.
     So, I got the €3.00 back, my 2nd withdrawal is still not on my bank account nor returned to my PayPal account so is don’t-know-where, but based on this experience I recommend contacting someone other than the useless help centre.
     I realize it seems stupid of me to complain about 3 euros when people have lost 1000′s, but it’s not my first problem with PayPal so am taking every penny quite seriously now. Last time it was hundreds.
181. Phil says:
     October 18, 2011 at 11:01 am

     I have included a couple of emails for Paypals head office in the UK. It helped me a little by PayPal still has my money. I am currently taking Paypal to small claims court to get my money back.

     Ill keep you updated on what happens.

     executiveoffice@paypal.com
     ppelce@paypal.co.uk
182. Sam Deeks says:
     October 18, 2011 at 7:54 pm

     Thanks Phil. Useful – do let us know what happens.
183. David says:
     October 27, 2011 at 8:19 pm

     Paypal is a absolute joke. I have given up on my £270 they have lost as I can’t waste anymore time phoning there incompetent staff just for them to say they have forwarded my case onto the finance departed and will be intouch. On five occasions they havent got back to me. They even hung up on me today as they said we are going round in circles. Thiefs
184. Sam Deeks says:
     October 28, 2011 at 11:27 pm

     David, I hear your frustration. Wish I could do something to help but the best I can do is keep this blog here for other people to share their experiences…and who knows, maybe someone will take them on in the courts.
185. David Christopher says:
     November 6, 2011 at 1:13 pm

     Hi

     I have had enough of Paypal. They have now frozen my account with over £900 of MY money placed on hold as my selling spiked. I have a recording studio and we have just moved over to Pro-tools so we are selling off obsolete equipment. The money raised from the sale was to be put towards the latest Pro-tools upgrade. Now I cannot do this so they are damaging my business.

     This is the second time they have done this to me. So I have decided to get the media involved and this is what I propose. If everyone who lives in the UK and has a valid complaint about Paypal contacts BBC Watchdog then just maybe we can bring this company and its unfair practises to the attention of the wider public and the powers that be. Many companies have been bought to their knees by this programme and have had to change their policies.

     If one person contacts Watchdog then very little will be done, but if 50 people contact Watchdog then we maybe able to highlight the issues that enables a company like Paypal to severly damage peoples businesses and the welfare of families and individuals. I have ended this post with the link to the Watchdog site.

     Please lend your support.

     Thanks David

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/
186. Tad says:
     November 9, 2011 at 12:06 am

     Hello,

     PayPal decided that I was in breach of their User Agreement and have so decided to limit my account for 180 days and deny me the right to appeal their decision. They say I breached their User Agreement because an eBay account was suspended. Thing is, only about 25% of the funds in my account were from that eBay account and yet they decide to place a hold on ALL my money? They say its to cover chargebacks. I did a bit of research and found that major credit card issuers have a chargeback time limit of 120 days, so why does PayPal slap another 60 days on that? It also says in their User Agreement that a chargeback can only be initiated if the buyer paid by credit card and NOT by paypal funds, yet they provided no proof that absolutely all transaction were paid in such manner.

     I live in Scotland and want to take them to small claims court and/or issue an injunction/writ as that seems to work. I would like to know though, from anyone who has took this route, what are the fees involved? What happens if I lose, what fees would I have to pay?

     I have also passed the link to watchdog to various people who have been affected by PayPals restrictions and I am confident they will send their complaint in, around 10 people I am hoping will do so.
187. Sam Deeks says:
     November 9, 2011 at 12:52 am

     Hi Tad, thanks for your comment (double-thanks because my site fell over yesterday and you’re the first person commenting since then which proves it’s still working!).

     Check back through the comments here. I’m sure that someone prepared to take them to Small Claims court earlier in this thread – that might help you…I seem to recall them saying it was only about £50 or something in total to issue the writs/ summons… Apologies for not checking back through myself as I’m currently very busy. Hope you find it – and thanks again for commenting. I’d love to see Paypal Watchdogged.
188. Duncan says:
     November 12, 2011 at 8:37 pm

     I just had both my PayPal accounts locked and my eBay listings pulled. 100% record. Not even a return. Shower of shady charlatans, both eBay and PayPal. Turns out my friend sending me £95.00 “personal payment owed”, which is exactly what it was, then me transferring that money to my bank, was enough for me to be “a risk”

     Same story as all the rest, “we need this now, we need that now” usual tosh. Jumped through the hoops and got absolutely nothing in return.

     Just found out they’ve actually now closed one PayPal account with the “you’ll get your money in 180 days” message, and I haven’t heard about the other one yet., but I can inagine that same email will be on it’s way as I write this.

     Tad. Keep in touch about using the legal system? I’m in Scotland as well and don’t know where to start as it mighr be slightly different up here? but my promise is that I will hunt them down like the dogs they are, and they WILL pay.

     I have just reported both “PayPal is ripping me off” incidents to BBC watchog at http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/

     Sam, the site owner: How about a site, well presented and well designed, carefully SEO tuned, based on what you are running currently and only focussed on PayPal cheating and scamming decent people out of hard-earnd pennies, with permalinks built into the navigation to:

     COMPLAIN TO BBC WATCHDOG ABOUT PAYPAL:

     FIND REAL CONTACT INFORMATION ABOUT PAYPAL:

     FIND WHICH FSA GUIDELINES PAYPAL HAVE BREACHED:

     THESE ARE THE ELECTRONIC MONEY INDUSTRY GUIDELINES PAYPAL MUST FOLLOW:

     PAYPAL ARE REGULATED IN LUXEMBOURG BY THESE PEOPLE:

     I’ve removed all the links in this post but they’re all already in this thread.

     My promise to you Sam. You build it, I’ll host it for free on linux based industrial quality hosting kit. Email me if you want more details. I want eBay/PayPal to get done so badly I’ll give what I can to get a result for everyone they have ever screwed over. In fact if you want to discuss getting your current mukamedia site hosted for free Sam drop me a note. That’s how much I appreciate what you’re doing here and how well it’s run.

     Question: What would one call such a site? “get back at paypal dot com”? not catchy enough…
     How about: “make paypal pay me dot com”?
     Or PAYPALPAYBACK.COM? I think I might like this….
     Tell you what, let’s have some suggestions…

     In additon, in my attempts to contact PayPal and eBay I can offer the following. Forget the 0870 numbers that cost a fortune. Why should you pay to have your complaint dealt with?:

     PAYPAL UK AND EBAY UK GEOGRAPHICAL AND FREE PHONE NUMBERS:
     PayPal UK Customer Service: 0208 605 3000
     eBay UK Customer Service: FREEPHONE 0800 358 6551

     Guys n gals out there take note: “PayPal will win… over my rotting corpse.”
189. Sam Deeks says:
     November 13, 2011 at 2:48 pm

     Hi Duncan – many thanks for your post. Wow. Another person stuffed by PayBay. Well done for posting the geographic and freephone numbers, I’ll cut them into the top of the original post.

     Regards getting back at PayPal.. I like your idea. To be honest, I have to think carefully about what I want to get out of it before embarking on such a crusade. Don’t get me wrong, I think how they carry on is outrageous. However, I’m not personally affected (I no longer use PayPal and I’ve never used eBay). I posted originally from an ‘online reputation’ perspective – to use Google to put pressure on them to do business in a better way. If I was going to escalate this campaign, I’d need to think through how I’d get some kind of return on that activity – for the simple reason that it’s a balance of time and energy with my other fee-earning work.

     There are some sites already – such as http://www.paypalsucks.com – which claim tens of millions of visitors and seem to have quite extensive resources but their Google visibility seems patchy.

     Where my site seems to be doing quite well is that it turns up on P1 for the following terms:

     ‘how to complain about paypal’
     ‘contact paypal’
     ‘paypal customer service’

     and is on P1 of Google (when I looked today) for the keyword “paypal”.

     The tricky question is really this: what can a site realistically do to change PayPal’s behaviour particularly a) when they have the eBay monopoly b) when there are few alternatives?
190. Duncan says:
     November 13, 2011 at 9:20 pm

     Hi Sam – I hear what you’re saying.

     Someone has to take ownership of this problem. I’ve been discussing this with a couple of my friends, and actually with a couple of my buyers, and we’ve come up with what might be a usable format for such a site. I have to be honest, I don’t want any financials in return, I want my accounts sorted and I want :

     1. For whatever I have done to resolve this to be easily accessed and used by everyone else who has been screwed over,
     2. for the governing authorities to take notice of what eBay (or PayPal, same Company), are actually doing, and for action to be taken in terms of controlling these service providers, and:
     3. the ultimate goal is to have eBay and PayPal be held accountable for each and every person who’s business they have damaged, reputation they have libeled, life they have ruined, whatever. Whatever they have done needs to be redressed. Most importantly it needs to stop.

     I have a rough format of site, content, and data submissions in mind, along with firm ideas of where to submit stored complaint data so it can be put in front of people who CAN make a change.

     Leave it with me. I’ll be back.

     OH I should mention. eBay not only cancelled all my bids and listings, and wrote to me saying “it’s for safety of our buyers, and we’re not going to tell you why we’ve done it in case it tips you off” (wtf?), THEN, wait for it, THEN today I found out they emailed all my buyers, (happy and completed and delivered sales, as well as those with items currently in delivery vans on their way to buyers), saying this: “We’re writing to let you know that the listing for the following item you bid on has been removed: If you’ve paid for this item but haven’t received it, please open a case in the Resolution Centre:”

     What they’ve just done is try to frighten my poor wee buyers into thinking I am some kind of fraud. Class act. Impressive M.O. Make sure your account holder has plenty money in their PayPal account then freeze it for 180 days with NO recourse for the account holder, then really do the dirty by making sure everyone he’s sold to gets a message from eBay telling them to open a case against him. Class indeed. Freeze the money. Lock the accout holder out. Ignore his contact attempts. Remove all traces from eBay listings, then get your buyers to put the last nail in because you have just frightened them into making them think I am a fraudster.

     This is far from over. I’ll be back with info that people can actually use. Thanks to your work and your site, Sam.
191. Sam Deeks says:
     November 14, 2011 at 1:26 pm

     Thanks, Duncan. You’re right, someone does need to take ownership of the problem – although I suspect it could easily become a full-time occupation! Keep in touch, let me know what you’re doing and if there’s anything I can do to help.
192. Tad says:
     November 14, 2011 at 2:56 pm

     Hello again,

     I would like to just update my situation. After sending an email to all the executives, ppelce@paypal.co.uk had replied and informed me that my funds could be withdrawn to my bank account but my paypal account would remain limited. Phew. Not a second passed after receiving the news that I withdrew my funds back into my bank account.

     Here is the opening line of my email sent to the execs, I did raise a few more personal points but they are not worth writing here.

     I am respectfully requesting that the hold on my funds/account be lifted. I am not;necessarily asking that be re-opened nor am I asking to be allowed to keep using the PayPal service, as I have already taken my business elsewhere to your largest competitor and no longer need PayPal’s services. I did request an appeal on this case twice by telephone and once by email. Although I disagree with your decision to deny me an appeal I will abide by it – however because I feel that holding my funds for ### days for non-fraudulent violation of PayPal’s Acceptable Use policy is excessive and a demonstration of abuse of power, I will be filing complaints with the Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman, Trading Standards Central, my local Member of Parliament, my European Member of Parliament, Office of Fair Trading and finally take my claim to Small Claims court if I deem your response to be unsatisfactory.

     So there is hope after all, just persist and chase after your money. Doing nothing will get you nowhere! The rage contained within me is what drove me to explore all avenues of approach.

     Duncan, try doing what I did. I found a list of all the executives e-mail addresses here – http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/forum/payment-and-shipping-discussion/54434-paypal-and-ebay-contact-telephone-numbers-reach-humans-list.html

     Scots courts website for small claims procedures – http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/sheriff/small_claims/index.asp.

     Procedure in Scotland is, indeed, different from England. It seems a bit easier and from my understanding carries a fee of £65 to issue a summons etc.

     Hope this helps, feel free to ask any questions. I do check up here regularly.
193. Anon says:
     November 14, 2011 at 5:32 pm

     Paypal are absolutely awful. After limiting my account without any reason I have jumped through every hoop to get them the information they requested and today is the last straw. They limited my account which has several thousands of pounds in, told me I won’t get access to my funds for six months. They said I had to send through certain information, so I sent it across. They said they didn’t get it. I sent it again. They asked for more information. They said they hadn’t got it and then Ebay closed my perfect rating account (as Ebay own Paypal).
     I have been asked to send through yet more information but they have removed the button on the site for me to actually send it. I called to complain and they still haven’t done anything about it.

     Paypal and Ebay are dodgy. Ebay removed all information for an item bought and sold just two days before. On that same day Paypal requested I send information about that particular item which was near impossible to do after Ebay had hidden all evidence of it. If it wasn’t for the emails I keep and the customer who was willing to help they would have screwed me from the start.

     This drama with Paypal has been ongoing now for about two months and yet no light at the end of the tunnel. They are professional scammers in my eyes now. Truly be careful if you are a business using Paypal!
194. Ross Callaghan says:
     November 14, 2011 at 10:35 pm

     Hi, i recently used my missus’ paypal account to buy a car part from the USA.
     the payment was sent fine and taken from the bank account. ($749)
     2 days later paypal froze the money in limbo and asked for all sorts of info which have been sent ( bank info, photo id etc)

     My question is can they really freeze money i have sent ?
     ive bought an item but cannot recieve it.
     Im giving them another week before i go into my bank and say the payment was fraudulent and get it back that way, and find another way to pay the guy in america ( its a rare part not available here)
195. Duncan says:
     November 15, 2011 at 4:16 pm

     Sam – Thanks. It’ll take time but I’ll be back.

     Tad – Thanks. I’m on the case.

     You know, it’s not about the money personally, it’s about eBay / PayPal no longer realising we are consumers, we have rights, and making them realise we will not just “bend over” any more. Just who the hell do they think they are?

     My life does not revolve around eBay or PayPal, I was just selling some unwanted stuff for a wee bit of extra cash for Christmas. I’ll manage perfectly well without it. But you guys running your businesses with these people? I can’t begin to imagine how this hurts you. It’s truly jaw-dropping. I wish I could help. I truly do.

     I know that any transaction can be a target for fraud or deception. I understand that rigorous schemes must be in place to protect consumers and financial services alike and I fully respect and agree with that. In fact as a developer of online stores and payment gateways I applaud it! But I refuse to accept, like everyone else who has posted on here, that these people hold themselves above the Law.

     I have been reading about this for ages, and like most everyone else I thought, “no, this can’t be right”, and I bet if you’ve just landed on this site you’ll be thinking the same, “well, you must have done SOMETHING wrong, they wouldn’t do that to me”

     Wake up people!! The proof is on this site and many others like it, it’s probably just a matter of time before it’s your turn next.

     I’ve got around 870 shops online at this moment. I’ve just contacted every client and suggested they stop using PayPal as their payment gateway, and all new installations are going live with the PayPal connection disabled. eWay, PayVision, WorldPay, SECpay, and Nochex are the main players we’re supporting now. I can’t have my customers working with PayPal. I don’t need the grief, and my clients deserve better.
196. Tad says:
     November 16, 2011 at 1:47 am

     Duncan,

     I truly commend your efforts. eBays monopoly has to be dis-assembled one step at a time. The more people that switch or use an alternative the more eBay/PayPal may become concerned and perhaps re-think their strategy. I also believe that a Watchdog investigation would do utmost good to our cause, the message needs to be passed around as much as possible – if anyone here posts on any similar sites to this then please pass on the link to Watchdog.

     What pains me is that I hadn’t really heard of the alternatives until I got shafted by PayPal which isn’t good, there will be thousands of people in the same boat. PayPal have just monopolised this market that other electronic money services dont even scratch the surface of discovery for new user’s – everyone asssume’s that PayPal is the most popular therefore must be the best.
197. David Christopher says:
     November 19, 2011 at 12:09 am

     Hello everyone. Thanks for your comments and lending your support to complaining about Paypal to BBC Watchdog. If we all re-iterate enough our experiences with Paypal to the programme then I am sure that we will be able to raise the profile of our dispute. For those of you who have missed the link it is http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/ Please keep the pressure up.

     Tad and Duncan thanks for your suggestions and your help. Duncan: I will keep an eye on this board and I will lend my support.

     Cheers David
198. Sam Deeks says:
     November 19, 2011 at 12:22 am

     Great to see a head of steam building up guys. The traffic to this post is steady – plenty of people having this problem … but nowhere to vent it or make an impact.
199. Bart says:
     November 23, 2011 at 11:49 am

     So pleased to find this page on the internet at this moment.

     I sold a dehumidifier to a woman on 24 Oct 2011. She transferred me the money via PayPal. She received the dehumidifier on Friday 28 Oct 2011. Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this woman out of the blue. She claimed the dehumidifier did not have an instruction manual and was not working. She demanded a full refund. I told her she has had the item for three weeks, it did not make sense to me for her calling me now to report the item was not working. I told her I would not take the item back and would not issue her a refund. She then said she would report me to PayPal.

     She filed a dispute against me on PayPal and PayPal has frozen the money that she sent me three weeks ago. I responded to PayPal that the buyer has had the item for three weeks, she used it for a home improvement project and now she has finished using the dehumidifier, she wants to send it back to me for a full refund. I don’t run a hire shop here.

     I supplied some evidence to PayPal to support my story yesterday and last night when I logged on to PayPal, I discovered PayPal has made a decision that PayPal told the buyer I would agree to issue a full refund after she returns the item back to me. I am absolutely furious with what PayPal has done here. I sent several online messages to PayPal saying I have never agreed to accept the return of the item and a refund to the buyer. PayPal just do what they feel like, it is utterly disgraceful!

     And now, I have been on the phone for 25 mins waiting to talk to the claim team, it is just not on!!! I will definitely take the matter further with PayPal!
200. Sam Deeks says:
     November 23, 2011 at 2:26 pm

     Hi Bart – many thanks for your comment. Another unbelieeeeeevable story about paypal. Well, I tell a lie. They are becoming depressingly believable. Keep us informed about how you get on will ya?
201. Bart says:
     November 23, 2011 at 3:09 pm

     Hi Sam

     Thanks for your comment.

     I have just spent (or shall I say ‘wasted’) half an hour on the phone with PayPal. I managed to get through to the Claim team and I asked the agent/advisor to put me through to a manager/supervisor. Then this woman called Amy picked up my call, the first thing she said to me was, ‘why can’t you discuss the claim with the agent?’ I thought what a friendly attitude – NOT!!

     I told her I needed to speak to someone in higher level because PayPal has made a final decision about my claim. I asked her if she was the person to make the decision. She replied it was someone else in the back office. I asked her if I could speak to them, she said no.

     Anyway, I tried to remain calm while I was going through my story with Amy, but Amy had such a disgusting attitude that everything that I said to her she just argued against it. For example, I told her the buyer has had the item for 3 weeks, therefore she must have used it. Then Amy said she bought something from eBay before and she did not use it until sometimes later. At that moment I just knew she was totally useless and unhelpful. She also added that PayPal has made the final decision to my case and that will stand as it is no matter how I try or argue here.

     I asked Amy what I needed to do if I would like to make a complaint against PayPal. She told me to write to the PayPal HQ in Luxembourg, that is just a dirty trick. How can I make a complaint to someone who is thousands miles away from England? Amy said PayPal don’t have a UK office but a UK call centre only, how convenient is that??

     Anyway, cut the long story short, I phoned FOS to seek for advice here. A gentleman from FOS took my details and said he would contact PayPal for me, then we should take it from there to see what PayPal is willing to do with my case. I told FOS that all I want is not to accept the item back from the buyer and not to issue her a full refund, just as simple as that…

     At this minute, I have cancelled all my credit cards which are registered with PayPal. And I told my bank not to authorise any transactions to PayPal too.

     Claim case continues…
202. Zilog says:
     December 3, 2011 at 11:51 am

     Hi there,

     I purchased an Apple Ipad from what appeared to be a UK seller on the ebay page only to find out afterwards that the seller was in fact Chinese. I logged an immediate claim with PayPal and they requested the seller provide a shipping reference, which they did.

     I then tracked this until a small package containing cheap sunglasses bearing the sellers shipping reference arrived through my letterbox. I immediately reported this to PayPal and uploaded a photo showing the package and tracking refrerence. The package contents stated on the attached labels had to be translated from Chinese and this said “Glasses”. All of this was provided in a PDF to Paypal.

     I was then asked to make a fraud report to the police and obtain a copy on letter headed paper. When I did this and asked at the police station, I was provided with a small card showing the crime reference and of the officer name and her badge number. This was not enough for Paypal, I had to obtain another report.

     On attending the police station yet again, the next officer filled in a crime confirmation report with all my details and the crime reference number and wrote “Ebay Scam” as the crime.

     Again – this was not enough for PayPal “Backoffice” who again dismissed this and asked for “full” details of my claim to be countersigned and stamped by the police. I went to the station yet again and this time they told me that this would never be provided by the UK police as that data was subject to the data protection act. I would need to submit a subject access request to the data controller which may take up to 40 days to obtain a respone. I have been given 4 days to obtain this data by PayPal or the case will to be closed.

     I really do not know now what to do – I really didnt think buyer protection was this awful – any ideas?
203. Sam Deeks says:
     December 4, 2011 at 5:55 am

     Hi Zilog. Thanks for your comment. This is about as damning an example of Paypal / eBay’s behaviour as you can get. They’ve set procedures that only make sense in their make-believe world with the result is that you’ve lost your money, they’ve profited from the exchange and the scammer has got away with it. And is there anyone regulating this shocking lack of accountability? Not that I can see.

     The only thing you can do is try to get this story into the media somehow.
204. Zilog says:
     December 4, 2011 at 1:06 pm

     Many thanks Sam, I still have a few days to respond to the PayPal request, however, will not be able to obtain the specific data that has been requested. I guess my only realistic option now is to contact my card issuer and request their help in retrieving my funds, which I understand are still being held by PayPal.

     What I want to know is, if I am being asked for all this information under buyer protection, how come the seller isn’t also having to prove that he didn’t send me a cheap pair of plastic sunglasses? I have the package with his provided unique tracking reference stuck to the small plastic bubble pack!
205. Sam Deeks says:
     December 4, 2011 at 1:40 pm

     HI Zilog. Great question.

     The answer, I suspect, is that since Paypal makes money from the commission (irrespective of whether the issue subsequently becomes a dispute or not) then its business bias is to favour the transaction first and worry about the credibility / legality of it second.

     That is a subtle but I think very important distinction about a trend where online business puts the company before the customer.

     Another example of this is Tripadvisor.

     Tripadvisor promotes itself as being of service to the travelling public by publishing user-generated reviews of hotels. In this ‘deal’, TA considers itself to have 2 customers – the travelling customer (who benefits by being able to consult reviews) and hotels (who benefit from being able to have a great online reputation). In reality, TA – like Paypal – has created a system that serves only its interests. Like Paypal, the TA environment is inherently vulnerable to scamming and gaming. In both cases, creating a system to control or eradicate scamming would have a negative impact on the core transaction that each depends on. In Paypal’s case, the core transaction is any sale between two users because commission is earned. In Tripadvisor’s case, the core transaction is the publishing of a review (which increases traffic and therefore revenue).

     The point here is that neither company will do anything that reduces the likelihood of those key transactions taking place – even if the so-called customer is damaged in the process. With TA, hotels suffer damage from fake, malicious or simply unrepresentative reviews but TA’s priority is to gain traffic for its REAL customers (i.e. Expedia and other booking services & advertisers) so it continues to run a system that not only damages hoteliers, but also, by definition, travellers who make decisions based on information that is anything but an objective truth. With Paypal the real customer is eBay (i.e. itself) and it continues to enable the transaction to take place first above the rights and concerns of the people it claims are its customers (the ‘buyers’ and ‘sellers’).

     One more thing that both businesses have in common is the way in which they give their so-called ‘customer’ no choice. People don’t use Paypal when trading on eBay out of choice, they use Paypal because they have no choice. Similarly, hoteliers don’t engage with TripAdvisor because they choose to. They engage because they’re forced to.

     There’s something about these businesses that are a new kind of online monopoly. As we all know, when you have a monopoly, the first thing that goes out of the window is the need to make your products and services actually serve anyone but yourself. So this tendency is nothing new – but what IS new is the almost complete absence of any kind of control or regulation in these new frontiers.
206. Tad says:
     December 6, 2011 at 12:52 pm

     Hello all again,

     There is a movement to expose PayPal to the media currently under way at reddit.com – a social platform which has HUGE exposure to the media and an even bigger user base. Here’s the story that set them off:

     http://www.regretsy.com/2011/12/05/cats-1-kids-0/

     http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/n1yx1/scumbag_paypal/ – that’s the link to the conversation thread on PayPal.

     A lot of the user’s have been emailing paypal about their scandalous treatment of a charity.

     PayPal’s response to the charity organisers’ question on why the account was limited and money sent back goes something like this…. “The donate button is for a worthy cause, not a charity”

     If we could help out by posting those links to as many sites as possible then we could get some momentum going.

     Their facebook and twitter pages are already being bombarded by disillusioned users not to mention the countless amounts of emails and phone calls they must have been receiving today.

     Im certain that this story will be exposed to the media in the USA and hopefully that will contribute towards an investigation in to their practices worldwide.
207. Amanda says:
     December 11, 2011 at 2:28 pm

     Hi, i asked paypal why it takes 1-2 working days for a withdrawal to reach my bank account (they charge £5.00 for this or free for 3-4 working days) however they are not giving me a straight answer merely pointing out their user agreement. I need to withdraw my money straight away for an unexpected bill ( vet bill :0( but paypal won,t transfer my money straight away into my bank account despite my asking them. Are paypal a bank? and if so why can,t they just transfer my money straight away even with a fee? They take their fees straight away and must gain interest with customers money/ies yet won,t transfer my money straight away which i feel is wrong.I have already had a complaint about paypal upheld with the Financial Ombudsman about a different matter and wondered if it,s worth lodging another complaint with the FO as paypal just aren,t giving me a straight answer .
208. Justin says:
     December 12, 2011 at 4:22 pm

     Had the same issue myself – sold some PC memory, which I fully tested prior to dispatch. Buyer receives memory, then a couple of days later says it is faulty. Advised that I would not refund (as stated on auction) and that manufacturer provides lifetime warranty, to deal with them. He opens case with Ebay/Paypal, who then promptly agree on my behalf to issue a refund and accept a return, despite me not accepting them! Absolutely disgusted that they have refunded MY money to a buyer for breaking MY goods, so I am now out of pocket and with a knackered item as well. Sickened.
209. Sam Deeks says:
     December 12, 2011 at 4:37 pm

     You couldn’t make it up Justin.

     I mean, it’s that simple and they couldn’t set up a system to guard against what you’ve just had happen to you and yet they’re entitled to manage billions of dollars worldwide?? Funny.
210. Mary Bradley says:
     December 17, 2011 at 5:17 pm

     I have been informed by PayPal that I owe a person I have never heard of £968.

     I have told them by telephone and e-mail that the claim by this person is fraudulent, but PayPal will not accept this. My bank have supported me and have refused to transfer any money to PayPal. What can I do to prove my case? I have no idea how this person got my details, and I do not know them.

     Help!! I feel very upset and aggrieved as this is fraud. What should I do?
211. Sam Deeks says:
     December 17, 2011 at 5:35 pm

     Wow Mary. That’s awful.

     This is disgusting. Unfortunately, I don’t have any clever advice to give you since I don’t know how to make PayPal listen any better than you. This kind of thing is why I stopped using PP many years ago (I only ever used it occasionally anyway) and have never, and will never, use it again.

     Unfortunately, PP behave this way because so many people have become dependent on their eBay/PP combo that they can pretty much do what they like. My only advice is to pull out and never use PP again, no matter what the impact might be on your business.

     After all, it can’t be worse than this, can it, surely?
212. Paul says:
     December 17, 2011 at 10:25 pm

     Paypal have just stolen £350 from me!

     I sold a phone on Ebay and the buyer promptly paid via Paypal and collected it in person. I was then told the transaction was under investigation. They then sent me an email saying they had completed their investigation and had taken the money back out of my account. No explanation why or details as to the findings of the investigation, astonishing!! How is that not theft?? I was unaware that I am not covered in any means by Paypal because I have no proof of purchase (what about all the people who have items too big to post??)

     I was so blind to the fraud committed through Ebay and Paypal – but having just been a victim myself I am shocked at how widespread it is. These kind of practicises are unacceptable and needs looking at urgently. I plan to contact my MP and will go through the complaints process (pointless as I am sure it will be) but we can’t just let them get away with it.
213. Sam Deeks says:
     December 18, 2011 at 12:53 am

     Hi Paul, sorry you had to join the growing list of really, really unhappy Paypal customers.

     I’m thinking the time is fast approaching to make some noise about Paypal. I don’t know exactly what or how yet, but am thinking about it. I’m seeing a regular flow of people coming here with similarly unacceptable stories. I’ve had some enquiries recently from mainstream media after they’ve ended up here researching Paypal – but I miss most of the calls as I’m really busy.

     When people struggle with this on their own, they tend to feel completely alone, powerless and demoralised. The experience of trying to contact Paypal is designed to be totally disempowering. I suspect most people with problems like yours just give up. I know I did. Years ago, I discovered Paypal continuing to make a payment that I’d cancelled. I tried for weeks to contact them, then hours trying to explain what they’d done, to absolutely no avail. Eventually I just gave up and let the payment carry on (it was only about £5 a month) until I quit using Paypal altogether which fixed the problem.
214. ZimCos says:
     December 18, 2011 at 10:41 am

     I can not believe there are so many of us, angry of PayPal service.
     They blocked my personal account about 2 years ago, after has been used for about 6 month. Of course they blocked my account when I had money on it and I had to wait 180 to get my money back.

     Now, I have a company. I made another account about 4 month ago. After 3 transactions they asked me to send them my invoices that I gave to my customers and the invoices that I bought the products. This was kind of strange. Why would I send my customers details and/ or my products providers details?

     Of course they locked my account, again with money on account, 2 days after I asked for my money to be send to my business account.
215. Sam Deeks says:
     December 18, 2011 at 5:04 pm

     Hi ZimCos. NOthing surprises me!

     Interesting question regarding the customer details and product provider details. Data is currency after all. You folks posting here are literally the *tip* of a huge iceberg. Most people I’m sure give up before even commenting on a blog like this.
216. Andy says:
     December 29, 2011 at 5:56 pm

     Hi,

     I’ve sold three items on eBay and two resulted in buyers asking for partial refunds of over £100. Both of them lied about the state the items were in and when I refused the refund, they escalated the case and eBay gave full refunds in each case. It seems from reading forums, the buyers were trying to exploit me in some way, but I am not sure how that all works.

     On each occasion eBay gave the money back to the buyer before I received the items back, and at the time of writing this I am still waiting for one of them, although I have a parcel force code that says it should have arrived by now.

     So moving on to Fees.

     The two items concerned sold for £295.50 and £382.00. Paypal charged me a total of £23.44, so I received in my bank account £654.06. I then had to reimburse eBay the full amount of £677.50 when they returned the money to the buyers.

     I have asked Paypal to refund me the fees for the two items but they refuse. They say something about having already given it back to the buyer, which confuses me as I am the one out of pocket.

     I have considered using eBay without using Paypal, but this is not possible as it is eBay policy that forces a seller to use Paypal as a payment option. However, that seems to go against competition. There is internet discussion about this relating to Australia, so I was wondering if this might apply to the UK also? If so, why hasn’t anyone tried to do something about it?

     Any thoughts on this?
217. Sam Deeks says:
     December 30, 2011 at 1:45 am

     Oh, man. This is priceless.

     Let me get this straight: you sold stuff on eBay and PayPay took a commission. Buyer then claimed goods were not as described and eBay forced you to give them the full amount back before you even got your goods back. Meanwhile, PayPal kept the original commission, leaving you currently £23.44 out of pocket and with one item still missing?

     A-mazing.

     Yes, eBay and PayPal have it stitched up. Yes, it’s anti-competitive. No, it doesn’t seem that anyone can do anything about it because there is no route to complain (hence people end up here), no regulation with any teeth, awareness or speed. Welcome to the world of ‘hey, it works about 85% of the time so who gives a sh*t’ business.
218. Andy says:
     January 1, 2012 at 2:38 am

     This might also interest you…

     From Paypal today:

     “Ebay refunded the buyer because you refused, and thats why you don’t get your Paypal fee back. Paypal had to give the full payment to ebay so sbay could refund the buyer.

     Now if you had refunded that payment yourself, then your fees would have been refunded back to you.”

     I tried to point out that initially they both wanted partial refunds and then escalated it to full refunds when I refused. I also pointed out that the buyers were telling lies about the condition of the two items to try to force me to give partial refunds. I also pointed out that I had repaid the money in full to eBay through Paypal on both occasions. It fell on deaf ears.

     It seems as if I am being punished for not giving in to the buyers demands.
219. Brian says:
     January 2, 2012 at 8:55 pm

     This is not my real name because this organisation really scares me and I do not want any retribution.

     Paypal took £400 out of my account without any sort of explanation which left my account minus £400. They did nothing about chasing the person who fraudulently used someone’s account to buy my goods but it seems they ARE bothered about chasing me for having an account in negative balance; ringing me every five minutes.

     I said I wasn’t going to pay any money into my account until someone explained to me why I had had £400 taken out of my account. I was put through to their legal department and he said it was purely down to me not having proof of purchase and nothing about someone’s Paypal account being used without the holder’s knowledge (This would seem to be the case as the eBay and Paypal accounts are different and they live nowhere near me but the item was picked up in person).

     Surely by covering over the fact that fraud was committed they are facilitating it? What concerned me most about this telephone conversation was the aggressive manner of the Paypal representative. He was accusing me of talking over him when all I was asking for was an explanation of why they had taken this money out of my account. I found this encounter very scary, it felt like I was dealing with some back street loan shark not a multi-national company. I was also shocked that getting an explanation in writing was like getting blood out of a stone.

     I have dealt with my mobile provider, the police and phone insurer concerning this matter and they have all been more than willing to put everything in writing. Paypal gave the impression that I was a fool for not getting proof of shipping but they are not ones for practising what they preach; they should be more than willing to put things in writing.

     I thought Paypal were a reputable organisation, they clearly are not! I have contacted BBC’s Watchdog and really hope they follow this up because it is a scandal how Paypal operate.
220. Sam Deeks says:
     January 3, 2012 at 12:53 am

     Hi ‘Brian’
     Join the club. I tell you, there are enough juicy stories in these comments alone to fuel a couple of Watchdog programmes. Good luck with it.
221. Alfie says:
     January 3, 2012 at 7:32 pm

     So I sold an item for £20 and the buyer filed a dispute, instead of having any hassle I refunded the buyer putting my paypal balance back to zero BUT paypal also refunded her putting my account into minus £20, I tried to explain that it was their problem but we all know what paypal are like to talk to.

     so I left it and ignored all the nasty letters threatening debt collectors etc, then came the letters and telephone calls from paypal’s debt collection company (i forget the name), I told them to take me to court and I will only speak about this in court infront of a judge, eventually a court summons arrived – all for £20!.

     I explained the problem on the court summons form and counter claimed for stress, needless to say I never heard anything again for paypal and my account balance went back to zero, no reason or apology given……

     and that is how I can sum up PayPal UK Limited.
222. mick says:
     January 9, 2012 at 6:23 pm

     Hi Sam.

     I opened a new e,bay and pay pal account on 12th december 2011 in order to buy a few xmas presents. I purchased two items of e,bay totaling about £25 and both delivered and paid for without problem.

     On 20st December i recieved an e mail from paypal saying i had sent a payment of $200 usd (£131.67GBP)to facebook Ireland Ltd (paypal -charges@support.facebook.com.)
     It said this may take a short time to show on my account.
     At the bottom of the e mail it gave instructions what to do if i have an issue with this transaction.

     I immediatly checked my online bank statement and the funds available showed minus this ammount. i presumed that the cash had not yet been taken from my bank.

     I immediatly phoned paypal asking what the hell this transaction was as i know nothing about facebook eireland and am not a memeber of face book, and have not authorised any payment to face book. I was told that they would look in to it, and that when i joined e,bay i had probably joined a monthly subscription to facebook ireland. I insisted that i hadent. He then said that some one could have accesed my password and that i should
     change it. He said they would look into the problem and e mail me back. 10 minutes later i recieved an e mail saying my account had been limited and they need to resolve a problem etc etc etc.

     At this point i contacted my bank on the emergancy number and explained what was going on. I asked them to stop this payment being taken from my account. I was informed the payment had already gone and there was nothing they could do they stoped my credit card immediatly and told me to complain.

     On 21st december i recieved an e mail saying they are investigating my compaint of an un autherised payment

     On 22nd December i had a solicitor friend ring pay pal asking what was going on and what action she was going to take regarding this fraudulant withdrawal.

     2011hrs the same day i recieved an e mail from pay pal stating that facebook ireland Ltd had canceled a billing agreament with me and that if i need to contact them use the following chanels Facebook Ireland Ltd paypal-charges@support.facebook.com

     On 22nd December recived an e mail stating funds would be returned to my bank account within 5 working days. This did happen but left me and my family broke over christmas.
     I rang numerous more times asking why this money was payed to face book ireland ltd, what there conection was with pay pal ireland and what they intended to do about it. I told them i had looked on the web and there where hundreds of people every day being scamed by either yourself or facebook ireland for different ammounts of cash, why? No expanation could be given.

     Guess where pay pal uk is based? ireland and even in the same building and office of paypal ireland ltd. something needs doing about this legalised fraud. How much interest are these people making on our money even though some get it back eventualy.

     Sorry for going on but i have never been so stressed and angry, it ruined our christmas along with many other peoples i would guess.

     WE NEED TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST THEISE THIEVES NOW

     Cheers Mick
223. Sam Deeks says:
     January 10, 2012 at 10:38 pm

     You damn right Mick, you need to fight back. It’s unbelievable. Glad you found these other comments – sorry I don’t have much else to offer you other than the advice that someone like you (someone who has actual experience of being screwed by Paypal) needs to go to the press; find the right journalist to talk to.
224. Jessica says:
     January 12, 2012 at 2:38 pm

     Hello Sam.

     I’ve had a similar experience to Mick, although I was lucky in that I spotted that my bank account was much more overdrawn than it should have been. When I looked, a cash transfer had been made via Paypal to somebody I’ve never heard of. I immediately contacted my bank (they were brilliant), and the transfer was stopped. I complained to Paypal, who after ‘investigating’ told me that I still had to pay the money! I couldn’t believe it as it was attempted fraud.

     My bank have put a block on Paypal taking any money directly from my account, and the credit card that I had used on Paypal was ‘lost’, so they have no way to take any money from me. I reported all of this to the police, econsumer and Credit Expert, and have complained to Paypal in the US. I have no idea how the person got my details. All I can think is that I changed my Paypal password on December 11th, so did this person manage to hack my details then?

     It’s odd that Mick’s problem also started on the 11th/12th of December isn’t it? I will never use Paypal again as they are so dishonest, and I can’t believe the number of people out there who have had problems with them. I’m with you Mick, I will fight them all the way.
225. julie says:
     January 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm

     I can’t get into my Paypal account as I no longer have my bank or credit card details and am going round and round to get my password. Sadly I can only remember half of my security question – who the hell can remember theirfavourite cartoon character as I set it up years ago! I am trying to donate to charity – how many miss out on this because of Paypals inadequacies?? AND I refuse to phone Dublin!!
226. Helen says:
     January 16, 2012 at 8:09 pm

     Nice to see that what has just happened to me is not uncommon.

     I am (was) an eBay seller and I have had paypal limit my account this week and then whilst in the process of uploading all the requested additional information they have decided to close the account.

     I have had the account for years and it is verified!

     I have refunded quite a few customers over the last month and I think this is the reason they have closed my account, although in the grand scheme of things this was a small percentage of customers.

     I have been told they are holding on to my balance of over £900 for 90 days and this is the money due to my supplier at the end of this month. This will leave me in financial difficulty.

     I left the money in the account from my last trading day of 15th December and explained to the person on the phone that if I wanted to defraud anyone I would have removed these funds back then!

     I will be taking legal advice and following this up even if they do release my funds in march.
227. Sam Deeks says:
     January 17, 2012 at 9:09 am

     Good for you Helen.
228. MARK ALDERSON says:
     January 17, 2012 at 6:28 pm

     Hi Ive had my Paypal account frozen with a balance of £1422, ive phoned them 4 times, spoke to 7 different advisers and been told a different story each time, from it will be back to normal in 24hrs, 48hr, 72hrs, 24 – 72 hrs, to “temporary hold indefinitely” !!!
     One adviser i asked how do i go about getting a copy of these calls, under the freedom of information act, the adviser ended the phone call. Ive been told by Paypal that they do not earn any interest off the money held, so where is it ? what company does not earn interest on money held in an account ? a company that is servicing severe debt !!! The down turn on the economy has turned many famous companies bankrupt, Paypal is acting like they are in line to call in the administrators
     I have reported paypal to the Financial Ombudsman who will now open a case against Paypal to fully investigate and take action against Paypal

     Mark
229. Ann says:
     January 17, 2012 at 10:06 pm

     I have just read some of the scenarios on here and mine is exactly the same as Paul and Brian’s. A person opened up a Paypal account and an Ebay account on the 26th September. He then purchased an item from e-bay from me on the 30th September. On 1st October paid by Paypal and the contacted me via e/mail to ask if he could collect the item or send to a work address as was in the area for business.I replied back with a mobile no. I was contacted and arranged for the item to be collected on 6th Oct. Which he came to my door and picked up. On 14th Oct Paypal performed a charge back saying the buyer was disputing the payment with his credit card company Looked on his ebay account and he had brought 2 smilar items within days of purchasing mine. Contacted the other seller and they also had charge backs. Have been complaining ever since. Paypal do not grasp that this is fraud they just say that the credit card company won’t accept the explanation and they can do no more. I have noticed that the paypal account of this person says next to his name. Non US Unverified. so it looks like they have allowed to let him use his PayPal account without verifying. Have complained everywhere but getting nowhere. Police are trying to investigate but it’s terrible. Noone seems to want to know. Paypal just keep saying I need to contact the buyer how can I he is a fraudster and the address is likley to ba fake to the user as they have probably used fake i.d to open accounts with Paypal, Ebay and the credit card company. Total Joke. Have sent details to Watchdog, The Daily Mail and will be contacting The Sun tomorrow. I think Downing Street will be next.
230. Sam Deeks says:
     January 18, 2012 at 7:28 am

     Go for it Ann – and point the reporters here and at http://www.paypalsucks.com and anywhere else you can find so many furious Paypal customers.
231. Sam Deeks says:
     January 18, 2012 at 7:29 am

     Hi Mark. Thanks for the comment. I’d love to hear from the FOS exactly WHAT they’re doing (what they’ve EVER done) for all the people who have contacted them about Paypal.
232. Rob Wijnants says:
     January 18, 2012 at 7:48 am

     I wonder if somebody can help me with a dispute with PAYPAL.

     They say your money is safe paying with them. I bought a phone over ebay. Was supplied with a tracking number. The tracking number shows delivered and a signature, but is is not mine. I have been to the post office but cant do anything because I am not the person that posted the item. Post Office also said it should have been posted Special delivery because of its value. Have opened claim and was refunded.

     Then seller complained and was decided in her favour. Clearly I want my money back because PAYPAL tells us all how safe buying with them are. I send them emails but nobody comes back to me. Respond time 72 hours – More like 2 years.
233. Ann says:
     January 19, 2012 at 11:55 am

     Update. Spoke to FSA seemingly they don’t regulate Paypal anymore so you need to contact the CSSF in Luxembourg. Their e/mail address is direction@cssf.lu. I have e-mailed them but have yet to get a response.

     Also contacted The Sun but they don’t seem interested and e/mailed The Daily Mail and have had no response from them or Watchdog either. Seems noone cares or wants to listen at how fraudulent Paypal are. Yet us poor innocent people are out of pocket and they continue to entertain fraudsters.
234. Ann says:
     January 19, 2012 at 4:35 pm

     Further update have spoken to the Financial Ombudsman. They are now goint to speak to Paypal on my behalf and set up a case. I advise everyone to contact the CSSF in Luxemborg and The Financial Ombudsman regarding your problems. The more the better. Had 3 e-mails yesterday from Paypal all saying I am not entitled to any money back. They are robbers.
235. Rev Bernard Cocker says:
     January 19, 2012 at 8:54 pm

     My Problems With Pay Pal & Ebay

     Help please someone Pay Pal have helped to rob me of over £500

     On the 15th of December Î ordered and paid for a new Apple iPad 2 64GB, Wi-Fi + 3G, ($770 plus postage) from an American seller and arraigned for it to be delivered to my friends address in Ohio as we meet regularly in Eastern Europe and he was going to bring it for me.

     When the package arrived it contained five stones wrapped in bubble wrap – nothing else – just five stones!

     Î contacted the seller on the 26th December who didn’t want to know and said that that they had posted the correct item. Î then contacted Pay Pal Ebay who replied on the 5th of January giving instructions to go to the police station, make a report etc, get the officers name and badge number, take photos and send them to the email address provided. But the police said it was an eBay problem and to go back to them. Î informed Ebay through the message system and also sent all the case details and scanned photos to their fax address, Why fax? Because the email address they provided me with would not accept emails!

     My friend then went to the Mailing Office and they advised that we made an online Police Report which we did and sent the file case number and everything else requested by Pay Pal. They had given me until the 9th January to provide all that they had asked for but they received it by the 6th. So what happened? I was sent a message
     on the 7th telling me that they had called the police station that day, that they did file reports and that the case was found in the sellers favour because Î had had made a fraudulent claim!

     Î then appealed the closed case decision; they replied and said that Î would receive an answer within 72 hours. That was on the 10th of January and Î have heard nothing back from them. This is robbery! How do they get away with it when they push customer payment protection so much!

     Î followed their instructions to the letter with two days left in the time given
     Î run an international charity and am used to dishonesty in the Third World – but with an international western company Î did not expect it and believe this to an organized scam of the lowest order. Bernard Cocker
236. Sam Deeks says:
     January 19, 2012 at 11:16 pm

     Hi Rob. Sorry to hear of your problems. Sadly, I’m not able to intervene in any way but I recommend you read the recent comments very carefully to see if CSSF in Luxembourg (see Ann’s comment below) can help.
237. Sam Deeks says:
     January 19, 2012 at 11:19 pm

     It’s pretty outrageous isn’t it Ann? The first and only time I had problems with Paypal (way back in 2007 I think) I stopped using them. I don’t use eBay either. I dislike both companies and want nothing to do with their lack of accountability and I can do without that in my life
238. Sam Deeks says:
     January 19, 2012 at 11:20 pm

     Ann, please DO keep us informed and if you are successful, consider emailing or posting a ‘how-to-guide’? You’d be doing people a great favour. I’m looking forward to hearing how it goes.
239. Sam Deeks says:
     January 19, 2012 at 11:24 pm

     Hi Bernard – thank you for posting. I’m really sorry to hear you’ve been scammed and that Paypal have done nothing about it. Unfortunately, I’ve heard this story a few times already in the reader comments to this post.

     Please do look at Ann’s experience (shortly before your comment) – she seems to be making some headway getting some help to force Paypal to be accountable. If you can, take the time to read all the comments here and see if there’s anything there to help you to take action. Sadly, I have no power to intervene – all I can do is to keep providing this platform to collect your stories in the hope that other people can find some solidarity and useful advice / hints from them.

     Let us know what happens if you can.
240. Ann says:
     January 20, 2012 at 4:41 pm

     Abit more info if you go to http://www.paypal.com and go to the bottom right there is a section that says papypal community talk. It has all different sections where people are posting. You will see tons of complaints just like the one’s on here with replies from it seems Paypal personnel. Suggest people put their complaints on there as well as this might be more monitored.
241. Sam Deeks says:
     January 20, 2012 at 11:51 pm

     Ann, good point – however it really doesn’t seem to be making much difference where people post online, Paypal continue to do what they want. It’ll be that way until somebody regulates them… properly.
242. Ann says:
     January 23, 2012 at 5:57 pm

     Further update.

     Financial Ombudsman sided with Paypal as we didn’t post our item. They don’t care if a theft or fraud has been caused as we didn’t follow their rules on sending the item by registered post. The fact that us and 2 other people in the space of a week have been robbed of items and subjected to fraud makes no odds and as far as the ombudsman are concerned Paypal warn you enough. Total crap.

     I told Paypal and Ebay this account was fraudulent and yet both this persons accounts are still open.

     Also seems very convenient that this person brought 3 items from 3 different people and none were received in the same week with no query e-mails via ebay that the item hasn’t been received. Total joke.

     Got an e-mail from Paypal today saying that now that the financial Ombudsman were dealing with it we should consult them. On a brighter note I did receive areply from CSSF who I sent an e-mail to about the fraudulent activities going on within Paypal and they have given me the director of Paypal’s e-mail to write to with my complaint. He then has a month to reply if he doesn’t reply or I am not satisfied with their response then I have a complaint form attached to their e-mail to forward with all correspondence. Can see this will be completed as Paypal will come back with the same shite.

     As the CSSF regulate them in Luxembourg I will go to them if I can’t get any answers.
243. Sam Deeks says:
     January 24, 2012 at 12:39 am

     Welcome back Ann – thanks for keeping us up to date. The Financial Ombudsman sounds like it’s too slow, too cautious and too toothless to do anything. Let’s see if you get a reply from the Director of Paypal – with his ‘one month to reply’ before you set CSSF on them.

     Worth doing some research on CSSF and see if they have an teeth. Keep us posted. If you can poke a crack in this dam, who knows, maybe everyone else can shove their way through and get some satisfaction. Think of yourself as a pioneering explorer!
244. Amanda Tomlinson says:
     January 26, 2012 at 2:12 pm

     Stopped accepting my password and cannot reset it. So can’t access my paypla account. Simply sent round in circles going throught the same proceedure 8 x today alone and still not working. Payments going out and no way beyond closing my bank account to stop them.
     This has been going on for three months. Why is there no body hold paypal to account?
245. MARK says:
     January 26, 2012 at 7:12 pm

     Update to my post on January 17th, 2012 at 6:28

     The ombudsman has now taken on my case earlier than expected, the Ombudsman officer will contact paypal tomorrow for some answers to how they have treated me and why the money is still held by paypal

     I also contacted Radio 4s money box and they have emailed me today stating ” We’re looking into PayPal’s practices for an item on Saturday ” I have supplied them with more information.

     Mark
246. Sam Deeks says:
     January 27, 2012 at 11:40 pm

     Hi Amanda
     I know how you feel. It’s enough to drive you almost mad. Unfortunately, these folks work on a business model than can afford to lose people like you – simply because so many millions use Paypal without any problems… until they DO have problems. I think we’re seeing it more and more: the ‘disposable customer’ – when it’s broke, they throw ‘it’ away.
247. Sam Deeks says:
     January 27, 2012 at 11:44 pm

     Hi Mark – that’s interesting. I’m going to listen to in if I can (and certainly via iPlayer). Nice work!
248. d collins says:
     January 28, 2012 at 12:59 pm

     Paypal closed a case not in my favor even though they stated they would close in my favor. I have spent more in phone calls than the claim was worth. If there are any Law firms that would like to finally bring Paypal to the courts and possible make millions on a Class Action Suit let me know, here is an Email received after many fights over the phone. I want to sue them for my time and phone calls
     Dear Mr D Collins,

     Here is a summary of our phone call.

     I confirm that your claim PP-001-610-670-387 was closed down againt you in error. I apologise for this and any inconvenience caused.

     I have now raised this issue to management and they will respond to you within the next 24-72hours.

     Please let us know if you require any further assistance.

     Yours sincerely,

     Michael

     PayPal

     Copyright © 1999-2012 PayPal. All rights reserved.

     PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A.

     Société en Commandite par Actions

     Registered Office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg

     RCS Luxembourg B 118 349
249. Sam Deeks says:
     January 28, 2012 at 7:23 pm

     I hope you get to somehow take them to task, d. They really deserve it.
250. damian says:
     January 28, 2012 at 9:42 pm

     I could be wrong but I think there may be a Legal issue with Ebay forcing you to accept Paypal as they own Paypal. This could be an avenue again to bring both Ebay and Paypal to an end. what I find amazing is in these hard times that more Law firms are not taking on both Ebay and Paypal as both are more dishonest than the banking system and look at the outrage there is toward the banks. I hope a young ambitious Solicitor decides to take these on and make a big Name for themself and a fortune in the process. I see one Law firm in the US got $9.5 million and $3.5 million was their cut. It this was a success in the USA why not here.
251. Sam Deeks says:
     January 29, 2012 at 3:49 pm

     The time is coming. At least it should be.
252. kurt says:
     January 29, 2012 at 5:54 pm

     i have had nothing but problems with ebay and paypal

     First of all i set up a paypal account over 10 years ago, i used it to recivce payments, buy things from ebay, accpect payments from my various websites without any problems

     Things went bad for me around 7 months ago, i started to source products and sell them online only via ebay, this was my big mistake, i got to many sales in a short time, in 4 weeks i sold over 10,000£ of products, one day i logged into ebay to see my account limited, then logged into paypal to see my account limited forever with £2500 in it

     On calling paypal and ebay to see what the problem was, ebay just says ring paypal to reslove any issue, then we might give you your ebay account back

     I rung paypal only to be redirected to there limitation department, these poeple are not nice, as you might expect they deal with limited accounts all the time, so the work there is not good, basicly they said go away you can not ever use paypal again, The reason for my limited account, i had made to many sales in a short time period?????

     It seems like they do not want poeple to make money there, the said yes we are holding your money for 90 days in case any of your customers chargeback, what they do not tell you is they send a message to all your ebay customers stating your a criminal or bad person or such like, i was flooded by ebay and paypal disputes from my recent ebay customers claiming items had not arrived, not as described etc etc, luckly i had proof of all postage and responed to each case in order to reslove it, but i guess its worth a try for these poeple hoping they will get my products and then get there money back

     fast forward 90 days, call the up, redirected to limitation dept, again they say go away now its 180 days

     180 days later, i get my money back

     few days later thinking everything is ok i have cleared my name, i set up a new ebay account and buy a few random things, as i do not have a paypal account and due to pay ebay a few pounds in fees, i ask my brother if i can use his account to pay the £4,89, ok he says

     3 days later i call ebay to ask why my ebay why my ebay account has selling limits of 10 items, they turn around and say, you have outstanding accounts with problems ( all i had was a dorment account which was limited by them and i had resloved all the issues and got my money back), ok i said i i had a problem but resloved all the issues with paypal.

     10 mins later my ebay account was limited again, and to top it of they limit my brother paypal account with £1300 in it because he payed my ebay fees once, on calling paypal to ask why, its basicly go away you can never use paypal again – what the do not say is use ebay can cause you problems as well

     i am done with paypal, i will still use ebay but i have only the option to buy items as a guest
253. Ann says:
     January 29, 2012 at 10:09 pm

     Here’s a laugh for you we got this by e/mail from Paypal after all the problems we are having:
     Did you know you that because you’re one of our favourite customers, you can get special treatment and shopping offers? We want to thank you for using PayPal, so here’s how we’re putting you first:

     - A faster, dedicated helpline: 0845 4011 050*
     - Superior customer service from our best agents
     - Exclusive offers from top brands, just for you

     We don’t want you to change anything you do, just keep using PayPal to enjoy your special treatment. Why not check out the latest offers now?

     What a joke !!!!!!!
254. kathleen lane says:
     January 30, 2012 at 1:52 pm

     Hello

     I have recently had problem with paypal/ebay received a message via paypal saying my account has been limited as they have been through my account history and it appears i have duplicate accounts which is a load of rubbish and says cannot be appealed against and they have limited my accounts which must be hard to limit my other account that doesent and never has existed.

     I did email them and state that i have only got the one account always have had and always will have so dont know where you get that from and asking them to sort it out for me and they just replied back saying at end of email their decision stands they have not even provided me with any information as to me supposidly having duplicate accounts and certainly havent got any proof i know that for a fact as i do only have the one account.

     Also my ebay account has been blocked and ive got the same thing about holding money iin my paypal account for 180 days isn’t much compared to others only £19.11p but thats not the point and this just goes to show how badly paypal/ebay can get things wrong but obviousley they just dont care and what they say or do goes and even when they get things so badly wrong as far as their concerned their still right. They have never asked me for proof of who i am where i live or anything else to try and get it sorted out.

     Kathleen

     PS as far as im concerned just proves at least some of the people working for them are idiots and how unfair paypal/ebay are and how little they care about their customers without who they would not have a business
255. Sam Deeks says:
     January 30, 2012 at 3:22 pm

     Hi Kurt – thanks for your comment. Shame on you for being successful!! And your brother for paying your eBay fees once. Obviously, being related to a master criminal such as yourself, what can he expect? Sadly, they won’t even notice you’re gone, they’ll move on to the next few million people who don’t have problems until they…have problems, if you know what I mean.
256. Sam Deeks says:
     January 30, 2012 at 3:23 pm

     ‘Special Treatment’. Lols.
257. Sam Deeks says:
     January 30, 2012 at 3:30 pm

     Hi Kathleen
     They REALLY listen to their customers, don’t they?? Lols.
258. kathleen lane says:
     January 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm

     hello sam and yes they do lol and they really do need someone to sort them out and show them they arent gods just ordinary people with a business that needs other people to keep them in business
259. Sam Deeks says:
     January 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm

     Problem is that there’s 174.9 million people not having problems and 100,000 having a sh*t time at the hands of PP… Statistically that’s probably ‘negligible’ but in human terms, it can be soul-destroying. Like I said somewhere a LONG time back, I once spent a few precious hours trying to explain to PayPal that they’d messed up two reference numbers and were making two payments each month instead of one to a particular supplier. It was only £3 a month, but after a couple of days of sheer and utter frustration, I realised that I valued my time more than I valued the £3. I let them carry on doing it – until the earliest I could shut down my PayPal account for good.

     I survive perfectly well without PayPal and eBay in my life
260. Ann says:
     February 2, 2012 at 3:30 pm

     Further update. Had an e/mail back from the director saying my complaint has been passed to a specialist team and that they will look into the matter and respond within 3 weeks. I do feel I will get nowhere with this and that I will need to fill in the complaint form and send to the CSSF along with my relevant paper work.

     With reference to Sam’s passage at the top of this page, the CSSF will not take up the case until you have had a reply from the director. If you are not happy with the reply then they will take it up.

     As for the Financial Ombudsman they have very limited authority on what they can do as Paypal are not regulated in the UK and PayPal have only voluntarily agreed for them to intervene. So they will listen to Paypal and will only advise if they have followed their rules. They can’t ask Paypal to change regulations or deal with fraud.
261. MARK says:
     February 2, 2012 at 6:17 pm

     It only took one telephone call from the Financial Ombudsman for paypal to release the funds that had been frozen. Its the 4th time ive used The Financial Ombudsman but the 1st time with paypal and every time the Financial Ombudsman has given me an excellent service. The Financial Ombudsman now has a section just to deal with all the paypal complaints, How many paypal complaints must they be getting ?

     Mark
262. Sam Deeks says:
     February 2, 2012 at 6:19 pm

     Mark – that’s excellent news. I’m going to cut and paste your words at the top of this post to inspire others.
263. Sam Deeks says:
     February 2, 2012 at 6:35 pm

     Hi Ann. Very interesting to compare your experience with Mark’s (see recent post) in which he says he’s getting through with the FOS. We need to compare notes a bit more carefully here – to find the right people and the right way ahead. Thanks for posting.
264. Ann says:
     February 3, 2012 at 6:52 pm

     Hi Sam I think it is because mine is basically fraud and the Financial Ombudsman can’t do anything about that, They look at PayPals rules and see that I didn’t comply with the Seller Protection rules by sending my item by registered post allowing the person to collect it. Basically the Financial Ombudsman say Paypal give enough info telling you that you are only covered if you send the item by registered mail.

     However, if someone opens a fraudulent account and 3 people get chargebacks for the same items I think that they should side with the seller and not the buyer as there is a pattern of fraud. Plus both this man’s accounts are still open on both EBay and Paypal even though I have reported both as fraudulent. This kind of fraudulent use of the accounts has been going on for years so obviously their checks are not stringent enough and people are getting robbed all the time.

     As I pointed out to the Financial Ombudsman if Paypal’s rules are that clear why are people still falling foul to them. Thus my gripe towards PayPal and only the CSSF can make them change or amend their rules. Mark’s scenario is different as it is about frozen funds.
265. Rev Bernard Cocker says:
     February 3, 2012 at 7:10 pm

     My Problems With Pay Pal & Ebay

     Help please someone Pay Pal have helped to rob me of over £500

     On the 15th of December Î ordered and paid for a new Apple iPad 2 64GB, Wi-Fi + 3G, ($770 plus postage) from an American seller and arraigned for it to be delivered to my friends address in Ohio as we meet regularly in Eastern Europe and he was going to bring it for me.

     When the package arrived it contained five stones wrapped in bubble wrap – nothing else – just five stones!

     Î contacted the seller on the 26th December who didn’t want to know and said that that they had posted the correct item. Î then contacted Pay Pal Ebay who replied on the 5th of January giving instructions to go to the police station, make a report etc, get the officers name and badge number, take photos and send them to the email address provided. But the police said it was an eBay problem and to go back to them. Î informed Ebay through the message system and also sent all the case details and scanned photos to their fax address, Why fax? Because the email address they provided me with would not accept emails!

     My friend then went to the Mailing Office and they advised that we made an online Police Report which we did and sent the file case number and everything else requested by Pay Pal. They had given me until the 9th January to provide all that they had asked for but they received it by the 6th. So what happened? I was sent a message
     on the 7th telling me that they had called the police station that day, that they did file reports and that the case was found in the sellers favour because Î had had made a fraudulent claim!

     Î then appealed the closed case decision; they replied and said that Î would receive an answer within 72 hours. That was on the morning of 10th of January and they refused my appeal the same afternoon! This is robbery! How do they get away with it when they push customer payment protection so much!

     Î followed their instructions to the letter with two days left in the time given
     Î run an international charity and am used to dishonesty in the Third World – but with an international western company Î did not expect it and believe this to an organized scam of the lowest order. Bernard Cocker
266. Sam Deeks says:
     February 3, 2012 at 7:25 pm

     Hi Ann thank you for that clarification – very useful. So if you’re one of those people who’ve had their funds frozen then the FOS is a good way to go.
267. Sam Deeks says:
     February 3, 2012 at 7:29 pm

     Reverend Bernard thank you for posting this (it’s the second time you’ve told us of this problem). It is shocking what they seem to have been doing. All I can recommend is that you get in touch with the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they can’t – or won’t – help, then try the CSSF.
268. Sam Deeks says:
     February 3, 2012 at 7:29 pm

     Reverend Bernard thank you for posting this (it’s the second time you’ve told us of this problem). It is shocking what they seem to have been doing. All I can recommend is that you get in touch with the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they can’t – or won’t – help, then try the CSSF.
269. Mac says:
     February 3, 2012 at 8:56 pm

     Can anyone help? I have been led a merry dance by an overseas seller (they in mainland europe/i am in UK), who spun me so many plausible reasons why my item no arrived, it took me a while to realise I been ripped off. But when i try to appeal to Paypal all their rotweiler call centre does is growl “outside 45 days” at me”. I been with them since 2004 and this my first mishap but they don’t give a fig. How can I do something now? Where do I complain etc either a) within their organisation b) to a wider regulator?
270. Sam Deeks says:
     February 4, 2012 at 4:38 pm

     Hi Mac. I think start with the Financial Ombudsman Service and if they can’t help, then move on to the CSSF.
271. Andy says:
     February 4, 2012 at 4:54 pm

     I thought I would post an update to my post from Jan 1st.

     My Paypal account had been put to a negative amount following the case opened against me by the buyer. Despite the eBay case still being open Paypal decided to try to recoup that amount first by trying to recover the money from my account, then, when that didn’t work, by phoning me and threatening to send in bailiffs. I pointed out that the initial case was still open and not resolved, but the man on the phone said this was not his concern.

     I read online an account from an eBayer who said they had contacted the Financial Services Authority. I did the same and found the operator very helpful. She did point out that this was not their responsibility but she also said they receive many calls from disgruntled eBay and Paypal users. She put me through to a chap who worked for eBay, a person who was responsive to my questions, rather than normal level of customer service I was used to experiencing. He understood the problem straight away, apologised, and said it would all be sorted out in 3 working days. He also said eBay customer service had given me incorrect advice and had followed incorrect procedures.

     Since that call my Paypal has been cleared and the problems with eBay have been sorted out. They have also credited my account to the value of £30, in way of apology.
272. DF says:
     February 4, 2012 at 7:19 pm

     Opened an eBay.co.uk account in January to sell some stuff we have laying around the house and the loft. Went through all of it and decided to list my first ever item and it stated “Sign up for PayPal (optional)
     If you want to use PayPal to accept buyers’ credit card and electronic cheque payments online, we recommend signing up before you list your first item for sale.” Well, I thought, PayPal optional? OK, I’ll have some of that and use my own merchant account, cos I have one. Made the listing, got to the point where it wanted me to select payment methods, and it said this: “We’re making transactions safer for eBay members by updating our accepted payments policy. The policy requires all sellers to offer PayPal as a payment method in their listings.”

     So. Question 1. When eBay first of all tells you “We recommend PayPal and it’s optional”, then you decide to go ahead and that has changed to “PayPal is obligatory”, isn’t that against some UK or European Law?

     So I opened a PayPal account and sent through the procedure of adding my bank account and having it verified and adding my phone mumber and having it verified and adding my card number… and you know the rest. I got verified. PayPal account in full operational state.

     Continuing on I decided not to list anything since I did not want the grief of PayPal freezing my payments, limiting my account, or doing any other of their tricks to scam me out of my money for anything I sold on eBay, or anywhere else for that matter, but I did decide to buy a graphics card which I needed, so I went ahead and lo! the seller only accepted PayPal. After a few emails we agreed between ourselves I’d send him a cheque. The guy had thousands of feedbacks at 100% so I wasn’t at all worried. All good. No. Not all good. On the day we agreed I’d send off the payment I logged into my eBay account to let the seller know I was sending his payment, and I was greeted with this:

     “Attention!
     Your account is currently suspended. Below you’ll find information on why and what to do next.

     *Why did we suspend your account?

     From experience we know that certain items and actions are more associated with fraudulent activity on eBay than others. As a precaution, we suspend an account if it gives us cause for concern. We then ask for more before we reinstate the account.

     Please understand we’re not accusing you of fraudulent behaviour. Our top priority is to ensure that eBay remains a safe and reputable place to buy and sell, so we’d like to confirm some of the information you’ve given us.

     An account suspension in these circumstances is covered in the eBay User Agreement under the heading “Abusing eBay”. You can read the entire User Agreement here:

     http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/user-agreement.html

     *Here’s what you should do now:

     Please send us all of the following information and we’ll review your account:

     1) Proof of name
     2) Confirmation of your registered address
     3) Proof that the item/s you listed are in your possession

     You can find out more details on the types of acceptable documents, as well as how you can upload your documents and here:

     http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/account/verification_request_documents.html

     Please be assured that eBay treats your personal information with the utmost care. We always destroy documents after we’ve reviewed them.

     *What happens next?

     Please allow three days for us to review your account after we have received your documents. We’ll then contact you via email. Your account will remain suspended until we receive and review these documents.

     We appreciate your cooperation and look forward to your response so that we can resolve this matter as soon as possible.”

     Somewhat miffed by this i took issue mostly with requirement 3: “Proof that the item/s you listed are in your possession”. How the hell can I provide proof of ownership of an item that I never even listed?

     Logged into my emails to find 3 notices from eBay about my account being suspended and one telling me not to pay for the item I’d bought as it may be a fraudulent transaction. Next thing I know there’s an email telling me the item I won has been removed.

     I emailed eBay through their own website asking them how I am supposed to prove ownership of an item I never listed. No response came within an accetabloe time so I logged back in to close my eBay account.

     On trying to close my eBay account I’m told I cannot as there is an outstanding issue on it, what a bloody joke!! So I’ve emailed them telling them they have 7 days to close it as I have no interest in doing business with them.

     Question 2. What right do eBay have to demand details of something that never even existed, and use this as a means to penalise me?

     Question 3. What right do eBay have to accuse me of fraud when no transaction was ever completed? and no listing was ever made by me?

     And so on to the lovely PayPal organisation. After all this eBay crap I logged into PayPal with the mission of deleting my bank and card details and closing that account. No chance! As soon as I hit “remove bank account” I got an error massage telling me my account had been limited, and they fired off two emails to me with the same content but with different case number s on them. So now they want me to add a bank account, a card, and provide other personal information,m all of which I have already provided at sign up, before they will “unlimit” my account. Not happening. My response to PayPal’s emails (which were returned since they don’t have the balls to send from an address one can reply to! Cowards!) state that they can whistle and i have no intention of doing business with them. Remember, this is an account with NO TRANSACTIONS!! They can fuck right off. So I have told them they have 7 days to allow me to remove my bank and card details and then allow me to close the account. I have also stated that if they go anywhere near my bank funds or my card I’ll have them in Court for theft and fraud so fast it’ll make them dizzy. To be certain they can’t touch anything I’ve logged into my online bank and cancelled the PayPal open direct debit, and called and reported my card stolen and had it cancelled, with a newly-numbered card being issued in a few days.

     Question 4. What legal right (forget their ridiculous “user agreement”) do PayPal have to extract funds from an account where no transaction have taken place?

     Rant over. Questions 1 – 4 remain, thanks for reading, and thanks to this site for giving me a real Paypal contact email address..
273. Duncan says:
     February 4, 2012 at 10:55 pm

     Hello again Sam and co.

     How’s things?

     Been a while. Been busy with Solicitors and stuff. I’ve also been trawling through the wealth of “Anti-PayPal” sites and my oh my there are a million problems out there! So on top of my own legal proceedings I’ve been having a few chats here and there and I’ve come up with this:

     http://www.change.org/petitions/uk-government-stop-paypal-ukeurope-stealing-users-money

     UK PayPal account holders with frozen funds / restricted accounts / funds withheld for any reason, keep a precise record of what is happening with your account and please sign this petition. Thanks.

     It’s time we all pushed for a solution. This is a start.

     PS If anyone out there wants to improve the petition letter or has a specific target in Government where this letter should go? Please let me know. Thanks.
274. Sam Deeks says:
     February 5, 2012 at 12:52 am

     Hi Andy. Wow. So someone at the FSA (who don’t have any remit to regulate PayPal or eBay) ‘put you through’ to someone at eBay who actually helped quickly and efficiently to sort out your problem? Great result. Do you have any names or numbers?
275. Sam Deeks says:
     February 5, 2012 at 12:55 am

     Hi DF. Great rant – thanks for commenting; more useful information to help others work out what the hell to do. I can’t answer your questions (no surprise!) but try asking the CSSF – the body that is supposed to regulate PayPal. Wishing you the best of luck!
276. Sam Deeks says:
     February 5, 2012 at 12:57 am

     Great idea. I’ve signed it.

     Get it out on Facebook – a group maybe?

Trackbacks

1. The Mu Show #3 | 'mu:kaumedia says:

   December 3, 2008 at 3:21 pm

   [...] Authority if you’re fed up with the service you’re getting from PayPal. Here’s a step-by-step guide to complaining about [...]
2. PayPal: who regulates it? Who can you complain to? | 'mu:kaumedia says:

   January 8, 2010 at 1:38 pm

   [...] did that, and posted this step by step guide to complaining about PayPal in the [...]
3. PayPal a standard bearer for the class of Out of Control online Service? « Nigel Gibbons – Blog says:

   January 23, 2011 at 4:48 pm

   [...] come and they will have to amend their ways. But PLEASE build up a correct trail of evidence. The How to complain about PayPal in the UK article does a good job in guiding users through [...]

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