Are you being harrassed for money by Expo-guide?
Welcome! You’re probably here because you signed a form thinking you were going to get a free entry in a business guide that suddenly turned into a demand for a lot of money. Well, you’re not alone. If you scroll down to the comments at the bottom of this page, you meet hundreds of other people like you.
You can also head over to Facebook to the ‘Stop EU Business Guide’ (another variant of this scam) group.
The good news is that you don’t have to worry. Expo Guide is a scam – and there’s nothing they can do to make you pay, except bully and threaten in the hope that you’re so afraid or ashamed that you’ll pay to get them off your back. It’s THAT simple.
Once you’ve read the following post and you’ve reassured yourself that you don’t need to pay or worry any more, then please consider joining our LinkedIn ‘Stop Expo Guide’ group. We need your help (and the help of your networks) to raise awareness about this scam to stop people like you getting caught up in it in the first place.
UPDATE: An Expo Guide insider has informed me that Expo Guide cancels accounts referred to it by the following body:
PROFECO: Procuraduria Federal del Consumidor, Av. Jose Vasconcelos
208 Col. Condesa, Del Cuauhtemoc, Mexico D.F.
Internet: http://www.profeco.gob.mx/
********************************
Original post:
Like World Business Directory, World Business Register and a surprisingly long list of similar scams, Expo-Guide sends out a form designed to deliberately fool you into signing a minimum 3 year contract for an entry in their directory (at a cost of around £1000 a year) when you’re under the impression you’re signing for a free listing in their business directory. Wrong.
Click on the thumbnails (left and below) to see the whole misleading form and a summary of the vital ‘small print’ that you’re supposed not to notice. (And, yes, Expo-Guide, I have edited the close-up version of your small print so people can see what they’re missing. For the full text, use the full version of the document).
This scam was raised in the European Parliament in 2006 (see the Busutill report_on_the ‘European City Guide’ ) but despite that, it’s still out there and it’s still big business.
It’s taken until now (9 or more years) for one of the companies behind one of the earliest versions of this scam (European City Guide) to be ruled against in the Swiss Federal Supreme Court.
That’s good news, but not good enough. These people just move their base, change the directory name and carry on.
If you’re one of the many people who have made that mistake of returning a signed form, the first you’ll know about it is when you receive the demand for payment, followed swiftly by letters from collections agencies piling on the ‘costs’ day by day.
It’s clear that the modus-operandi of the organisation behind these scams is to trick you into signing for 3 years contract, threaten you relentlessly until you pay the full amount or they ‘generously’ let you off with just having to pay 1 yr or it. The success of this scam depends entirely on you being frightened enough to get into communication with them.
Why? Because people contacting them is their way of ‘qualifying’ prospects for their scam. When you contact them, they know you’re frightened / ashamed enough to want a way out – and then they’ve got you.
Jules Woodell estimates that some 80% of the estimated 250,000 businesses that signed the European City Guide (just one of the many variants of this form) didn’t / won’t pay. That leaves 20% presumably who will. But even if only 1% of that 250,000 paid just 1 year of the 3 years fee, we’re still talking around about £250,000 extorted from small businesses. This is a very big scam – and all it takes is the ability to email huge lists and employ ‘debt collectors’ to chase.
A quick Google search for ‘Expo Guide’ turns up plenty of evidence against these scammers. The same applies to World Business Directory – although they’ve been a bit cleverer and made sure they flooded the first couple of pages of Google with their own innocuous references. This search will show you what you really need to know.
If you want more detail, then this scam and a range of variants are fully documented on Jules Woodell’s excellent http://stopecg.org/ – an absolute must-read if you’ve been affected.
Sadly it seems we can expect more and more of these scams – particularly while banks seem completely indifferent to the nature of their clients’ activities in this field and so long as certain web hosting providers continue to turn a blind eye as well.
So. Expo-guide: scam or not? You decide – and use the comments (below) to help you make up your mind.
PS – if we’ve saved you €980 or helped end your worries, please support our work by clicking through to our sponsor sites (under our picture on the right there –>). Thank you!
Thanks for your review, you have saved us loads of money, I was going to sign up but thought I’d better do a google search, Thank od I did, what b…. who prey on small businesses., All the best Malc
Glad to have been able to help, Malcolm – I’ll continue to use the Google-power of this site to draw attention to such scams and rip-offs whenever I can.
If you come across something dodgy like this and want me to look into it (and publicise it) let me know!
Hello Sam!
Thank you for your review, I just want to share my shame with everybody who had similar “experience” with Expo Guide! I have signed on the dotted lines and I’m receiving emails and letters asking me for payment which I don’t have, my company went bust a couple of years ago and I want to put an end to these nasty emails from Expo Guide asking for “easy money”! How can I do that please? Kind regards.
Mo
Hey, Mo.
Let them try to take you to a court (judging by everything I’ve read they won’t). Even if they did, they’d lose because this is a well-known rip off.
Read everything here http://stopecg.blogspot.com/2008/06/open-letter-to-owners-of-expo-guide.html and you’ll see you’re not alone.
Hi
It seems that I am not the only one here. I received an invoice last week from Expo-Guide Mexico asking for payment of € 1, 181. I was so shocked. I have received forms for about a year, always ignored them then one day in June I signed it thinking they just wanted to be certain that my details are correct, after all it is FREE….or so I thought! God I was furious, immediately send them an email asking for my details to be removed last Friday. Heard nothing, wrote again on Monday. Nothing until the next day I received an email advising that I was too late to cancel within 10 days of signing the form! It was signed on 5th June 2009. A little over a month later I receive an invoice with an enclosed photocopy of my contract that I signed…that was when I read the tiny letters with the € 1, 181 and to my shock it is per year over a three year contract. Totally absurd.
I am obviously anxious that I would get demands after the payment is due on 25th July 2009. Help!
Birthe, take the time to slowly read everything here and especially the ‘stopecg’ site. That should help to calm you down a bit.
Thank you Sam. I have read everything and send a letter of complaint to Expo. Dont think they will accept it.
One thing though I have signed up with the group via yahoo but cannot seem to get any interaction with the people. I dont know how to do it. Do you or anybody know?
Thanks
Hi everybody ,
I’m also another victim of signing the document by mistake a “contract” by “expo-Guide”. I have received two legal notices threatening me to pay pay $ 1571 with interst of $ 178 . I have writen them to send me a hard copy of the documentary evidence proving their claim that they have advertised in Expo Guide as per Foreign Exchange Regulation Act & RBI guidelines for remitting Foreign Exchange .
Now waiting for their response . Meanwhile , I will be obliged , if some one could suggest the action I should take to avoid legal procedure .
Regards .
CR
FYI, I went onto the stoecg website & I am currently filing a complaint to the Mexican authorities as they suggest.
I have received already what they call in French the “last sommation to pay”.
It is very interesting, as obviously, it pushes on the “fear factor”. However, there is no way I will let a dime to these dishonest people & I have faith in justice.
As well, please note that on the stopecg website, they do mention that nobody has yet been served. We currently only all got stressful reminders & reminders.
don’t give up !!! We are still in a country with laws & justice proving often the common sense. We need to build up cases against them & I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU ALL START FILING A COMPLAINT AT THE MEXICAN AUTHORITIES. It’s time consuming, it’s stressful, but worth it. I would very much appreciate seeing them having to ruin themselves paying back the victims who already paid !!
CR & CB – Thank you for your comments. I hope you don’t get bullied into paying these people. They use a form that is designed specifically to trick you into signing for their ridiculously expensive ‘service’. How can you be sure it’s a trick? Because it’s the same format that has been used many times over to rip other people off under different company names.
What an absolute disgrace that our laws permit fraudsters to threaten innocent people!
Hello from Hong Kong. We have the scourge of Expo-Guide too. My wife has been caught by them and has got to “the pay us in 7 days or we will take you to court in Hong Kong” letter. HK law is based on British law still so this is still a scam here. But me and all the people in StopCG telling my wife not to pay, does not reduce her anxiety. She is very scared. Funny how the “pay us in 7 days” letter took 31 days to reach us.
We have written to them and pointed out that this was a trick by them and they should go away. I have contacted the Mexican trade mission, the Spanish government (as they want to be paid in Spain), the HK Government and The Austrian Trade Mission. Those who have read the StopCG site will know this all bears a strong resemblance to Construct Data, and Austrian outfit, that the Austrian Government have done battle with and won. I also wrote to the bank in Spain pointing out that they were getting money from a scam and may be liable. Shortly after this the bank we were asked to send the payment to changed. So I am trying the new bank too. So that line of action may have some effect. Real problem is that governments (Except Austria) will not act against them. Switzerland and the Czech Republic have raided parts of the empire, but it remains to be seen if that stops those parts of the operation.
Then you think, Spain, Mexico, No chance. Not the most active law enforcing counties you could name.
But has anyone had anything happen after the legal threats, and how many are there? We have one. Do we get a second or a third, how long before they go away?
Where is Roger Cook when you need him?
Tony, by a strange co-incidence, I’m replying to this from the transfer lounge in Hong Kong airport.. Sorry to hear you wife has such anxiety about it. Look at it this way, don’t pay and the worst they can do is take you to court. All evidence shows they’ve never taken anyone to court. So that’s 100% likely nothing would happen. Even if they did, then the worst that would happen is you’d have to pay what your wife is considering paying already.
Verdict? Just don’t pay
then come back and tell other people that nothing happened.
Best of luck,
Sam
Hi, I am another victim of this fraud called Expo Guide. We’ve signed the letter couple of months ago, and now they’re charging us “delay fees”. I’ve contacted the company and the Mexican authority mentioned at stopecg website. And I will NEVER pay them. If they want, They’ll need to hire an international lawyer, which for sure will cost them more than USD1571,00.
Rod
Sao Paulo – Brazil
Hi!
I´ve also signin´that “order” s.t.s! For five years I´ve got letters from Expo-guide, but in april I signed – ant thougt that I was updating my details. In this letter was also the fairs namne whitch I´ve have had my exhibition – very misleading.
I also complained when I got the invoice, ( 2 months later) but it was of course too late – what else!????
Well, this is absurd, and I´ve got invoices, remenders, and letters. BUT I´M NOT GOING TO PAY! So, DON´T PAY!!!! Just ignore them!
Thank´s and goog luck to us all wictims!!!!
Good for you Rod and Liisa!!!!!
Let’s hope other people visiting this thread will gain confidence from your experience.
Expo-guide have moved east. I hope due to getting in touch with the Spanish Authorities and Banks. They now request payment to go to Hungary, instead of Spain.
We have also spoken to the Spanish Trade mission in Hong Kong and the Spanish internet fraud police in recent days. You should contact your local Spanish trade mission too, as they need a Spanish company to have a Spanish bank account.
I am now contacting the Hungarian Trade missing to start complaining to them in the hope of getting then chased in Hungary.
I have also spoken to a Mexican Lawyer here in Hong Kong. He look one look and said, this is a scam and would not stand up in a Mexican court. They would have to raise a case in a Mexican court and get it approved. Then the case would go to the Mexican Justice ministry, who would have to approve it. Then it would have to go to your own government in order to get the case into your local court. None of which will happen he feels. Especially as most governments agree this is a scam. The form is not correctly made up and is not legal in Mexico. So their threats of taking you to court are very unlikely to get through all the hoops, even if they tried, which they are unlikely to do.
Good to hear, and thanks for the additional information Tony.
So – if anyone is reading this after being bullied by Expo Guide (or any of the other rip off ‘directories’ that use the same deliberately misleading forms) please take heart from the fact that you’re not alone. And also from the fact that these people wouldn’t stand up in court anywhere.
Why don’t they take it to court? Not just because they’ll lose but because it would create wider awareness of what they’re doing – and that’s the only thing that will put them out of business.
From Thailand
My sister is also a victim. I write this letter to announce that the expo-guide’s devil coming to Thailand. I try to syop that order which came from their mislead letter. But they said ‘cannot cancel’ and have to pay immedeadly. Now I wrote a letter told them to cancel the mistaken order again. But I think they will still sending their invoice. So What can we do. Unfortunly we are not strong write and rread in English.
thank again. KK
I’m a victim of Expo Guide too. I had just plucked up enough courage to spill the beans about my mistake to my boss. Thankfully he is understanding and bold enough to ask him to ignore Expo Guide. I will write in to them to cancel this and we shall see where that leads to.
Good for you Pei Lin – point your boss at these posts and the ‘stopECG’ site for reassurance that these people are scammers and don’t have a legal leg to stand on. Best wishes
I have contacted the Hungarian trade mission in Hong Kong. They say that unlike in Spain, you do not to have a company registered in hungary to have a company bank account there. But they are still thinking what do to.
I have also conatcted the bank they are now using in Hungary to warn them they may be money laundering.
Go TONY, go!!
Expo-guide and World Business Directory (et al) would make such a great TV expose about how legislators fail totally to grasp the implications of online fraud.
Anyone know anyone in the documentary business? Thanks again, Tony – keep us in the loop. If you want to write a piece that I could publish as a single post, then please send it through and I’d be happy to do that (with a nice Google-friendly title of course)
Now that Roget Cook had retired into academia and ITV only want to do phone in competitions the choices are limited.
Well I was going to have a go at a Radio5live programme – the Investigators – having already hit File on Four. The investigators returns in September, on that’s tomorrow. After that is BBC World Service – Assignment. They seem to be into this sort of thing.
Don’t know anyone at CNN these days. Swiss Radio International has all but closed down, but that is one country that has done something. I am loathed to go near any programme with Nicky Campbell in it, but then there is Watch Dog. If someone does a “news” type piece about this then you might get a C4 commissioning editor interested.
Oh I do know someone at Radio Nederland – That is Hilversum – to those of you old enough to have had a radio with place names on it. So I will pitch the story to them.
I did write to Watchdog suggesting that (for the reasons above) this might make an interesting investigation… but no reply. That may have something to do with their rubbish online ‘idea submission’ form.
I DO remember ‘Hilversum’! Spent my childhood exploring that mysterious, dark world of analogue radio stations. Remember listening to the cold war propaganda from Radio Moscow?
Hi Guys,
I’m also from Hong Kong and got hit by this scam. They sent me the form 2 or 3 times and I filled it out and sent it back to them. Of course I received an invoice a month or so later (I can’t remember exact length of time). I did find it a bit strange though because they even sent a copy of the form I filled out which is unusual. I ignored it because I didn’t want to fork out the money and also because I had a feeling something was up. Seeing that it was from Mexico, I decided to ignore it because I didn’t think they could do anything. Then I got letters quite often and just recently a letter from the “legal department”. After I received that I googled and found a number of sites discussing this scam. I’m glad I found it because I was getting a bit worried that they could affect my company reputation by taking me to court. I also talked to a friend of mine who has a law background and was informed that if they really had procedures setup in Hong Kong, I would’ve heard from a Hong Kong court already. Anyways, I haven’t even made contact with expo-guide yet. I tried calling them just now but no answer. Tony, since you’re from Hong Kong, if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Thanks for commenting Suraj and good to hear that you feel confident about NOT paying these people. It’s very rewarding to find people who have been helped or reassured by these posts and all the comments building up over time.
Good luck to you and to anyone else who has fallen foul of Expo Guide or World Business Directory et al.
Keep those comments coming!
Suraj – welcome to the club. You might like to join the Stopecg.org mailing list. You can contact me via that or ask Sam to pass you my email address. [will do - Sam]
The autumn Fair season is about to start in Hong Kong so watch for another flood of letters and worried people.
Yes, I’m definitely planning on sending them a letter using the format given on Stopecg.org. It’s a great website. I’ve also continuously tried to call them but with the time difference I am never able to get through to someone. Anyways, I’m definitely not paying and now that I’ve confirmed it’s a scam I’m looking forward to having some fun with these guys if possible. I recently rcvd an email from “Euro Business Guide” with an attached form similar to the Expo-Guide one. I “unsubscribed” to their email list and included a few lines saying that I know they are a scam and that I have already notified HKTDC about them already. I doubt it will stop them from sending out more emails, so watch out for that one. Anyways, I would love to have them take me to court, it would be fun to take them down that way… but I’m sure they wouldn’t waste the time or money! All the best everyone!
Thanks, Suraj! I managed to leave my MacBook power supply at work this weekend, but next week I’m going to pull together a pile more links about this scam into one place (and make a few new posts).
People who have enough online ‘savvy’ to do a Google search will pretty quickly find people like us saying what a scam this is. The problem is getting this out into the ‘hardcopy’ small business world. In the UK, there are a huge number of business networking groups meeting every day of the week and that’s the place to raise awareness. Suggests to me some kind of ‘link up’ with the organisers of those.
Typically, in a room of 30 breakfast networkers (of the kind I used to go to) I’d say at least 75% were ripe for this kind of thing: i.e. they used email and had a website but practically no understanding of a) how the web *really* works and therefore b) the kinds of dangers out there.
It’s these people who need warning off – but it would have to be old-fashioned mainstream media or word-of-mouth on the ground.
Got my legal notice today from Expo Guide warning me that I have got 7 days to remit and that my claim had already been scheduled for court recovery procedure in the uk.
Letter dated 26/08, received 17/09. I figure I am already over the 7 days so I might as well ignore it.
For information they are now asking that payment is made to a bank in Slovakia so they are moving about a bit.
My letter is now going to hit the bin. Best advice to everyone is shred and ignore. What an absolute p*** take. As if the world of business wasnt hard enough already!!
Another request for payment arrived. This time asking for the money to be sent to Italy. Now there is an image. So I have emailed Barclays, Italy. Barclays is one of the very few British banks not owned by the Her Majesty’s Government these days, pity. But I did copy in their press people and asked for a comment.
I also contacted the Italian Trade mission in Hong Kong, who refused to do anything. “Unfortunately, I must inform you that also from our side, there is nothing else we can do.” was their reply.
Today I have received the letter from Expo-Guide’s legal dept too. With the letter dated 02.09.2009, we were told to pay by 13.09.2009. But the letter arrived in the mail only yesterday. I will have to notify my boss of this and see how he wants to handle it. I will keep you guys posted in a while.
Hi,
I am in the same boat – signed the contract, and have received one invoice. I emailed and called with letters/messages that it was a mistake – and told them the letter was misleading. After weeks of email and calls I got an email saying that I could not cancel. By the way, sounds like the calls go to a home answering machine. And, the line is always has a lot of static…interesting to say the least!!
My question is – has anyone out there been a victim of this scam in the US? I don’t see any above but maybe I missed it. I am in the States…so where should I go to report them? And, what if any rules apply in the US to scams such as this?
I plan on ignoring all harassing correspondences for payments. My company is a world-wide business with more legal backing than they would want to contend with. If they try to take us to court , boy do they have another thing coming!!
Please advise on US victim situations if you can?! Thank you!!!
Hi Brooks, thanks for the comment. A quick bit of research with Google turns up evidence that Expo-Guide seems to have been in the US for a while. I wonder just how many people have been bullied into paying? What’s infuriating is that when there’s no official governmental agency working on the case, then there will be no statistics about just how many people have been scammed.
According to Jules Woodell’s excellent ‘stopecg.org’ site (http://www.stopecg.org) you could contact:
Federal Trade Commission
Office of Business Fraud
600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington DC 20580
Tel: 1-202-326-2800
Fax: 1-202-326-2034
Email: OIG@ftg.gov
He also suggest that if you received the form in the post you could also file a mail fraud complaint with the US Postal Service. The URL he gives for this form is wrong, so I have tracked down the right page for you:
http://www.usps.com/forms/miscforms.htm (see last form on the list “PS Form 8165 – Mail Fraud Report”)
Finally try Econsumer.gov, though this is mainly for personal consumers http://www.econsumer.gov”
Hope that helps and just remember that no-one I’ve heard from so far has ever, repeat ever, been taken to court by those scammers.
Do let us know how you get on!
Wow, thank you so much. You don’t know how much your research and this site has helped me. I felt so ashamed that I was “conned” by these people but it really helps to know that I am not alone and that their operation is WRONG!
I have contacted the Fed Trade Commission and next step is the Post Office. I will continue to keep you posted on my progress. Oh, by the way, I also contacted the ABC news show “investigations” (I am in the PR industry). I will continue to spread the word to the press because this might be the only way we can really bring these people to light.
Glad to have been able to help. If you can find a way to get somebody in the US to make this mainstream, you’ll be doing the business world a huge favour. These people only succeed because their victims operate in relative isolation and because the governments and bodies supposed to protect them are 10 years behind the technological curve.
Let me know how far you get. There must be a LOT of people hit by this in the US… and at least some will have paid out of fear.
Good luck!
Hi Sam,
I have another question for you all…has anyone mentioned anything about the “fine print” missing from their original form?
I found a facebook group to “stop ECG” and a few people mentioned that they didn’t believe their original forms had the “fine print” on it, or that it was very faint to read thus why they signed the form.
I am looking at the “copy” of my signed form they sent back to me with the invoice and it looks like a good cut and paste job if you ask me! I am starting to wonder if that fine print was originally missing from the form that I signed…I always read fine print so it has been bothering me why I wouldn’t read theirs?
Perhaps it was missing or illegible?
Just thought I would bring that up and see if anyone thought or experienced the same thing.
Thanks!!
Hi,
I signed there misleading form in may and have got my second overdue payment reminder. I am stationed in Sweden so Expoguide made it all the way over here. I’m trying to be strong and not pay, but please IF anyone would to be dragged to court please list this on the website so t´hat we know.
Have anyone heard anything from Swedish companies?
I hope this discussion continues until Expo guide stop.
Thanks!
Carolina Lindahl
Stockholm Sweden
I have found out that their website (Expo-Guide.com) is hosted by Network Solutions. I have sent an email to abuse@networksolutions.com advising them of the scam and pleading with them to investigate taking their site down. I know another victim who also did the same thing.
If they have no website, they have no way to cover up this tawdry operation.
I advise ALL of you to please send emails to Network Solutions with your story in hopes that the more letters they receive the more they will be inclined to investigate and take them down!!!
Thank you.
Today I receive the second and arguably the last Legal notice with the interest piling up.
And last week I got a reply to my letter pointing out that they were misleading by associating themselves with the trade shows. They replied saying they consider their cover letter for the listing is entirely comprehensible once read and that the form was returned duly signed in the space reserved for a legally binding signature to confirm the contractual terms, which are located directly above the signature space. In short, they brush it off as error on my side for not reading through the terms and they want payment settled.
I will have to bring this up to my boss again.
Brooks, it will be great if you can put them to shame on International news!
Jamie, I got my legal notice two days ago too, and my case is also, apparently, scheduled for UK court recovery………
Hi everyone,
I’ve just been reading all of your comments and a) I’m so glad it wasn’t just me duped into signing the scam form and b) that you’re all refusing to pay! Please, please continue to do so!
Since I received my first invoice a few months ago, I immediately sent a cancellation letter as per the Stop ECG website and received similar replies to all of you. I wrote a further letter crafted by a lawyer and they still refused to budge. I wrote one last letter to state my position which was that I refuse to pay for such a ridiculous scam (I’m not even sure what the service is that they’re offering?!).
I’ve informed my local Trading Standards in the UK and they are ready to help if necessary.. The very worst Expo Guide can do here is take their ‘grievance’ to a small claims court and I’d like to think that with all the evidence, blogs, past precedents (Fairguide)etc it will be laughed out.
My advice is to get in touch with your country’s Trading Standards or Fair Trade organisation and make them aware. Also, re media – I’m aware that at least one UK paper published the case with Fairguide before it went to court.
Hello from, BULGARIA!
And we have a “contract” and we have received a invoice for 1180 euro!! WOW!
Now we will send a letter for “…Since the error was caused by you and was material in leading to conclusion of the contract, we contest the contract – in so far as a contract indeed even came into being….” and letter to Minister of Economy and Work Bundesminister für Wirtschaft und Arbeit (BMWA) Austria; Department for Competition BMWA Austria and Osterreichischer Werberat (OWR),c/o Wirtschaftskammer Wien .
Hope this will be enough! I’m checking every day here for news.
We will pay for nothing!
Regards!
Thanks, everyone for posting. Makes useful reading for anyone else caught out by this. Marie, thanks for that info – I’ve just Tweeted it so maybe networksolutions.com will pick it up.
BK, good to hear you’ll pay nothing.
Still waiting to hear of anyone who was take to court by Expo Guide (with evidence to back it up, of course – so don’t bother with fake posts, Expo Guide lols)
Yes, we don’t’ want pay. But I worry a little big…Expo-Guide is scram…but we still have a contract and invoice…pffff.
I didn’t see somebody else form Bulgaria with this problem. Hope it’s only with our firm.
Hope Expo-guide dies soon.
Regards,
Boriana K
I seek some advice from a friend who is a counsel. Apparently Expo Guide can take legal action on us in Mexico without us knowing. And I wonder how things will play out in that kind of situation.
So, let’s hear from someone – anyone – who has been sued via Mexico then. I’ll bet you no one has.
In all the research I’ve done so far, I’ve not heard from a single person or organisation who have been taken to court by any of these scammers. If they make money at all it is by intimidating people who feel scared – Or ashamed – enough to pay the 1 year that Expo Guide / World Business Directory ‘generously’ settle on.
Liisa from Stockholm again!
Hello!
(I´m the same Liisa från the 21 august)
Today I recieved my 3rd and “final overdue payment reminder” dated 1.10.2009, they ask for payment no later than 12.10.2009 !!!! After deadline of 14 days they will “take legal steps”!
Of course I will NOT pay!!!
To Carolina Lindahl – contact Swedish Trade Federation, they have advices for you!
I have not read about anyone who has been in to court yet. I say as many of you – what can they do?
It´s so hopeful to read all those comments from you, thank´s to Sam Deeks!
Liisa fron Stockholm
Sweden
I have received many invoices and threads from Expo Guide.
Now, listening your comments, I am only ignoring them.
Elton
Brazil
Good for you, Elton. Remember to post back here if Expo Guide EVER actually take you to court
Good luck!
Hi Liisa. I suspect what happens is that they start off by demanding 3 yrs worth of money which scares a fraction of the people they’ve emailed their dodgy form to.
Once they’ve got those people in communication with them, they then appear to ‘back down’ and agree to ‘settle’ with just one year’s payment. At about 900 Euro, that means if just 1 in 1000 people go for it, Expo Guide are making serious money.
F**k ‘em.
Hello,
I am also another victim of Expo-guide.
My suggestion to all: DO NOT PAY any penny. What they can do?? Nothing!
Regards from Croatia
Hello agan from Sweden!
Today I recieved the next thret, and the top of this “Demand for Payment” has a red colour now and the headline is: “Legal Department!” I don´t know which legal department – the adress is still the same to “Expo guide” in Mexico! Have they their own Legal Department maybe?
Now they say:
” The accounts dept has transferred handling of your unsettled account to our dept.You have signed a legally binding contract for a payable insertion and now the contractually set deadline for payment has long expired. To aviod a court recovery procedure, we urge you to remit the pending amount outlined below:”
And then there´s a new invoice and the same sum as earlier!
So they still think that it was a “contract” they have sent me – I must laugh!!!
So what can I do, what can I say? Has any of you get severel from this “Legal Department” – letters? How many?
Liisa
Hi Liisa
To be more accurate their wording should read: “to avoid us being exposed and ridiculed in any court we might be stupid enough to try to bring charges in, please will you just be scared enough to pay up?”.
In all my research (including all the comments here and on other blogs) I have not yet found anyone who has been taken to court – out of the thousands who have been threatened.
I repeat, the modus-operandi of this organisation is to trick you into signing for 3 years contract, threaten you relentlessly and eventually ‘generously’ let you off with just having to pay 1 yr. For that to happen, they need you to get into communication with them.
If you don’t believe it, test it. I’ll bet you €10 that if you make contact with them and tell them you’re not willing to pay the full amount because you feel their contract was misleading, they will eventually (miraculously!) offer to let you off for just 1 year (approx €900 – leaving them €900 richer.
Like ALL scammers, the scam depends on you making contact with them. Why? Because if you do, they know you’re worried and that they’ve got you hooked, and are likely to feel so stupid / naiive that you’ll actually pay €900 to not have to tell your boss what a fool you’ve been etc. People contacting them is their way of ‘qualifying’ prospects for their scam.
If only 1 in a 1000 contact them, they’re still going to be making a lot of money – for doing nothing but emailing out pdfs.
Hi Liisa,
I recieved the same letter as you on the 4th of novemeber from the legal department. I have to admit that I’m feel alittle sick when thinking about what happens if they actually does something instead of threatning. So i would also like to know, what happens after this threat from the legal department?
Liisa, it seems interesting how they send the letters to Sweden at the same time. Are you also based in Stockholm?
BR Carolina
Hi Carolina, thanks for commenting.
I don’t think *anyone* has been taken to court. The problem is that people comment here when they’re scared and then disappear.
If you – or anyone else here – actually progressed to court wouldn’t you be back here shouting, warning and informing people?
What I’m saying is this: the fact that people ‘disappear’ after posting here continues to suggest that *nothing* ends up happening (unless they cave in and pay – see above explanation of how this works).
Please, for the sake of all the future people who come here scare, we need YOU to keep posting to create a story of what happens next.
If you want, I’ll happily turn whatever happens next into posts on this blog – so that other people don’t have to go through the (unnecessary) fear and stress you have?
Thank you Sam for your answer!
Carolina!
Yes, I am based in Stockholm too!
Liisa
Hi all,
I have seen the question “what will be their next step?” on the sites concerning Expo Guide fraud. Maybe I have an answere? Two days ago we got a mail to our “info-mailbox” from a company in Cyprus. The mail had some attachments with copies from fomer letters and invoices from Expo Guide. The mail was formal and contained the following sentences:
…..
Our client’s order form was received with a cover letter as an attachment. You will certainly agree that this covering letter is not made up to confuse the addressed party, as to the contrary it explains the possibilities in black and white, i.e. any corrections of the existing data to be done solely online and to use the enclosed order form only for a ‘payable insertion’. These instructions do not leave any room for any kind of misunderstandings, it is crystal clear.
Despite the afore mentioned facts our client is still willing to settle this matter amicably and therefore authorise us to deal with this matter.
…..
Yours faithfully,
Lisa Branson
Senior Credit Manager
INTERNATIONAL CREDIT MANAGEMENT
by Fobble Services Ltd.
Tsacon Court, 4th Floor,
187A Leontiou Str.
3020 Limassol, Cyprus
P.O. Box 53397
3302 Limassol, Cyprus
Tel : +357 25 27 06 00, Fax: +357 25 27 08 89
email: lb@fobbleservices.com
Though I did send the letter about “misstake signing….” they have continued sending invoices and threading with legal actions. I have, as many of you, waited for their next step. The day after the mail I was called on the phone and surprisingly I had Lisa on the line. I told her that now when I have a name, a phone No and an address in Europe I intend to make this a police matter. I also told her that I look forward seeing them at court in my country.
Lisa promissed to go back to her client and tell my complaints. Her client is probably not far away?
Jan
I thought I was the only one who has made such stupid thing.
Actually I have received the same letter few times, I had ignored them, but somehow one letter came to My boss’ desk, and he asked me to fill in the letter and post it,
And unfortunately I was in opinion it was just requesting confirmation data of our company relating with the exhibition we participated.
Really I overlooked the trapped sentences & very tiny letters & amount, it’s really A NASTY TRAP.
I was under deep stress and very fear a legal case may appear to my boss, until I found letters from you guys.
Even I know my boss understood me, when I told him this case, but it was still effect very badly to me, BUT NOW I REALLY have courage and feel relieve now, IT’S BECAUSE OF YOUR LETTERS.
Let’s spread this news, in order no other people experience stressfull life for their tricky trap.
Thanks for the comment, Lian. Remember – come back and let us know if they go through with Legal Action. (99.9999999% sure they won’t)
Nice one, Jan! Heh heh.
Everybody, please note this line: “our client is still willing to settle this matter amicably “ This is means “now you have contacted us (and we know you’re worried) we will let you pay us just 1 year – €900 + – to settle. Nice, aren’t we?”
DEAR FRIENDS WHO HAS BEEN TRAPPED BY EXPO GUIDE
ONLY ONE WAY WE CAN FIGHT WITH THEM
JUST IGNORE THEM AND DON’T PAY EVEN A PENNY
ALL OF US MUST DO THAT, IF THEY WANT SUE US, THEY SUE ALL OF US, THEN EVERY ONE SHOULD REPORT TO THIS BLOG, WE WILL STRIVE TOGETHER, DON’T SCARE, THEY WANT US TO BE FULL OF SCARE ; INTIMIDATE US WITH LEGAL BINDING, DON’T LET THEM WIN, PLEASE FRIENDS BE STRONG, WE ARE WITH YOU.
FAIL THEIR AIM.
THANK YOU FOR ALL WHO ARE ALREADY CONCERNED WITH THIS CASE, AND INITIATE TO MAKE BLOGS TO UNITE US AND SHARE OUR PROBLEM AND SOLVE IT WITH CONFIDENCE.
You’re welcome. If posting here saves one person a bit of worry, then it’s worth it.
Hello again from Bulgaria. My first comment here was on October 20th, 2009 5:14 pm.
We send letters to Minister of Economy and Work Bundesminister für Wirtschaft und Arbeit (BMWA) Austria; Department for Competition BMWA Austria and Osterreichischer Werberat (OWR),c/o Wirtschaftskammer Wien and to EXPO GUIDE.
Now we have 2 e-mails:
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Dear Sirs,
we refer to your letter from 2. November 2009, in which you mentioned your
dispute with the company Expo Guide S de RL de CV.
As far as we are informed this company is located in Mexico (EXPO GUIDE S de
RL de CV, Ave Horacio 340 – 3 Col. Chapultepec Morales, México D.F. 11570,
México, RFC: EGU0705223M8).
Therefore Austrian law cannot be applied. Concerning your problems with Expo
Guide`s business practices please contact the competent Mexican authorities!
For instance:
• CFC: Comision Federal de Competencia Mexico, Av. Santa Fe 505 Col.
Cruz Manca; Del Cuajimalpa, C.P. 05349 Mexico D.F.
Internet: http://www.cfc.gob.mx/
• PROFECO: Procuraduria Federal del Consumidor, Av. Jose Vasconcelos
208 Col. Condesa, Del Cuauhtemoc, Mexico D.F.
Internet: http://www.profeco.gob.mx/
• Secretaria de Economia, Alfonso Reyes No.30 Col. Hipodromo CondesanC.
P. 06140 Del Cuauhtemoc, Mexico D.F.
Internet: http://www.economia.gob.mx/
Best regards
Vienna, 04.11.2009
For the Federal Minister:
MMag. Erika Ummenberger-Zierler
One day later e received and e-mail form Expo guide
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Dear Sir / Madam,
We refer to your communication received on 05.11.2009.
Our offer contained two possibilities, to update your free address listed, online, or to upgrade to a full sized payable advertisement, by signing and returning the order form.
The cover letter introduced the offer with the specific indication to, “place an order for a payable insertion [by using] the attached order form”. As the order form contained order terms and conditions with specific price details directly above the space entitled “legally binding signature” for their subsequent activation, there is absolutely nothing inaccurate in the commercial document you chose to respond to.
The “error”, if you wish to call it that, is due to several factors. If the contractual terms and further information provided was not read, then the “error” cannot be considered as such. In this case the error is due to negligence.
We trust this explanation clarifies the situation, and ask you to remit payment of the outstanding amount as soon as possible.
Yours faithfully,
Customer Services
Expo-Guide
Expo-Guide is a product of
Expo Guide S. de R.L. de C.V.
Apartado Postal N° 39-064
México D.F. 15621, Mexico
info@expo-guide.com
http://www.expo-guide.com
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Regards,
Boriana K
About this comment: Jan on November 7th, 2009 1:00 am
I think this is very interesting situation. I’m waiting information form Jan about the next step
Boriana K for BG
HI Boriana, thanks for commenting again. Don’t be surprised at their reply; it’s their way of intimidating you. Please review all these comments and all the other information online about Expo Guide. If you hear of ONE case of them taking ANYONE to court, please come back here and tell us.
Hi
I live in Cyprus
and few days ago I had an interview for Fobble Services!!! They wanted me to call companies didnt pay Expo-Guide invoices and pushed them to pay !!! I realized it stink bad and so I didnt accept. What shall i do now ? Report cypriot police or what else ?
HI Jo
Can you imagine it? Knowing you’re extorting money out of people who genuinely thought they were getting a free directory listing, NOT a £900 a year rip off.
Mmmm Interesting! Congratulations on NOT getting a job working for these people!
Can you give us any more information about the company that you interviewed for? Note Jan’s comment (above) with all the contact details for the company. Interestingly, their website is ‘under construction’ lols. I’ll bet that something about Fobble Services Ltd isn’t quite right somewhere. There’s not a single reference to them online, not even through companies search. ‘Fobble Services Ltd’ are not listed at Companies House.
The closest match is ‘Fobble Ltd’ – which was dissolved 12.05.2009
As for the domain http://www.fobbleservices.com see domain details below:
Registrant:
Vakis Demetriou
Theofilou 20a Santhemis 7
1st Floor Flat 103
Limassol, Limassol 3075
Cyprus
Registered through: DomainZoo.com
Domain Name: FOBBLESERVICES.COM
Created on: 08-Sep-09
Expires on: 08-Sep-10
Last Updated on: 08-Sep-09
Administrative Contact:
Demetriou, Vakis vakis@postcy.com
Theofilou 20a Santhemis 7
1st Floor Flat 103
Limassol, Limassol 3075
Cyprus
99435145
Technical Contact:
Demetriou, Vakis vakis@postcy.com
Theofilou 20a Santhemis 7
1st Floor Flat 103
Limassol, Limassol 3075
Cyprus
99435145
Note that date of registration for the domain. BTW – this is all publicly available data.
Why not have a word with the police in Cyprus? Ask them which government agency you might report this company to. A company that’s not registered in UK at Companies House and one acting for a well-documented and controversial online scam operation.
I know Jules Woodell at http://www.stopecg.org (a guy who campaigns against Expo Guide and all the other versions of this scam) would be interested in hearing from people who have worked for / nearly worked for these people. Why not email him at stopscamguides@yahoo.co.uk
Thanks for commenting
Sam
I e-mailed stopscamguides@yahoo.co.uk
So far no answer
About their location:
INTERNATIONAL CREDIT MANAGEMENT
by Fobble Services Ltd.
Tsacon Court, 4th Floor,
187A Leontiou Str.
3020 Limassol, Cyprus
P.O. Box 53397
3302 Limassol, Cyprus
I spoke to xxxx x x x xxxxx [Ed: I removed this person's name since they contacted me and explained how they got involved in this and how they left when they realised it was a scam]
and I also met THE BOSS, dont remember his name, but he looks like german, austrian…
They told me they open less than 2 months ago
and they are recruiting people, mostly foreigners.
I saw few people, young guys and girls
Great Jo.
I’ve been having fun with Google based on the information you’ve given me. The evidence points towards a husband and wife team with the wife having a track record in the Swiss financial industry – specialising in liquidation. Since Switzerland recently outlawed these scams and the ‘debt-collection’ companies operating on their behalf (read the home page here: http://stopecg.org/ ) it seems only logical that they’d ‘re-locate’ to somewhere they can continue their dodgy practice.
From what I know (thanks mostly to Jules Woodell) the top guy is German – featured in this article in the Daily Mirror in 2006
I also have some nice pictures (thanks to Flickr and Facebook. And remember, dropping someone from your FB friends list in a hurry doesn’t stop them showing up in the Google index and connecting you to them
hi all. i’m a little relieved to read everyones experiences. I am another victim of this scam, I aparantly ‘signed up’ with them over a year agao now. I got very worried about the letters I was getting, as I am a sole trader. So I did pay them for a year and included a letter saying that I did not want to hear from them again and I was cancelling my contract etc. Today I received another letter asking for payment and I phoned them straight away. Some girl on the phone just kept saying you signed a contract etc. I got very annoyed with her and said I will not be making any futher payments and I will be seeking legal advice etc. so she hung up the phone on me!!
Anyway I have a bit more confidence now that I’ve read these posts and will not be intimidated by them.
Thanks Sarah
p.s. I just noticed now they have moved their bank account to : Berliner Volksbank Eg, Germany. So Tony, looks like your plan of writing to the bank is working
Yeowwww, Sarah – so sorry to hear you paid a year already. See, folks? That’s how these people actually DO make money. I’m glad to hear you’ve taken a stand – but be warned, since you’ve paid once (and shown them you were worried enough for them to be able to bully you), they’re likely to push even harder. Be strong, hope you keep checking back here and find strength from other peoples’ stories.
Hello all friends that also took the bait,
Over here in Canada, same Expo-Guide scam. Just got the “Legal Department” letter, which is obviously sent from Expo-Guide, and not from an official Legal firm – Would cost too much money to get real lawyers involved… assuming real lawyers would get anywhere near that kind of Scam.
After being suckerred-in, my approach was this:
1- Send them the letter StopECG recommends (and keep a printed, dated copy), by registerred mail stating you signed in error and that you wish to cancel immediately.
2- Upon receiving their reply – KEEP IT. It confirms they indeed received your cancellation notice. Just in case.
3- Then, as I do, COMPLETELY IGNORE THEM, AND GO ABOUT RUNNING YOUR REAL BUSINESS.
I will post here further developments.
Do not worry folks, this scam is going nowhere fast as long as people know the facts, and trade fair organizers warn their exhibitors about these scammers.
Hang-on!!
Mike
Well the latest news is that Expo-Guide now takes credit card payments. I know that in the UK the credit card company has a problem if you pay using a CC. You can ask for the money back if you do not get service, and this will damage their ability to take CC money in future. I AM NOT SAYING PAY THEM SO YOU CAN ASK FOR THE MONEY BACK. That is a risk. Just that, if you have, then ask Visa for your money back. Also making a payment does mean that you have accepted the “contract”, so just do not pay them anything.
Good to see their bank accounts seem to be moving every month. We have not had a demand since August when we got the “We will start proceedings in your local court” letter. This, as we knew, has come to nothing. So now they have nowhere to go. This means I am not seeing where the accounts are moving to.
I have however never got a reply from any of the banks. I get the feeling I should call the press office of the Barclay’s bank that was used. Force them into saying something.
Jules at stopecg.org sent out a letter to members of the email group last week asking us to post a warning into all the groups/boards/blogs we are members of. This too, will spread the word to new and potential victims. We have just had the autumn round of Fairs in Hong Kong, including the new Wine Fair, so the letters should be flooding out soon to the new crop of targets, based on the new list of exhibitors.
Hi Tony, Mike – excellent posts, thank you!
Tony why not call Barclays’ press office? Ask them what they plan to do so you, the customer, can be confident that they aren’t profiteering from obvious and known scams. Would love to reprint their response
Good, pro-active move from Jules there. It’s great to see a bunch of people swinging together to do what governments and legislator’s can’t seem to do. Careful, I’m starting to sound like I believe in social media… can’t be having that…
I received one of these emails today asking me to sign up for a directory called World Company Directory. I don’t know if is the same people but the “order form” looks similar to others I have seen on stopecg.org. I went to have a look at their website, and did a bit of investigating. The website appears to be being hosted in Taiwan by a company called Seednet, but all the links on the menu on the website point to a German hosting company PlusServer AG. I wrote the following email to the abuse department at PlusServer AG
“Dear Sirs
I would like to point out that one of your IP addresses 85.25.241.242 is being used by an organisation scamming money from companies all over the world. The company, currently trading as World Company Directory (previously they have used World Business Directory, Expo Guide, European Company Directory amongst various other guises) tricks people into registering for free for their online database, then sending them invoices for about Euro3000 (see here for more information about the scam http://www.mukaumedia.co.uk/expoguide-scam-decide-yawn/)
The website for this scam company http://www.worldcompanydirectory.com/ appears to be hosted on a server in Taiwan, but all the links from the menu bar point to web pages with your IP Address 85.25.241.242 in the URL. By hosting these pages you are helping to facilitate this scam.”
Richard
Hi,
my company has also received the letter from Expo-guide, but we didn’t sign it. Is there any way to completely remove my company’s listing from their site? If I email them about this, will they comply, or will it be just a waste of my time? Has anyone ever had success with this? Any help will be appreciated
Hi people,
Romania is joining your”club”
In fact, one of our former employees had signed and stamped the document sent by Expo-Guide. When we got the first invoice, nobody knew what’s about. I contacted their office, and a lady speaking French sent us the document by fax.
What a terror! Since then, plenty of invoices/reminders so on.
We never wanted to pay anything and, a few days ago, a Romanian called from Cyprus, asking for money…
He even sent an email, with attaches.
Today, a Greek named Taribis, from the same company in Cyprys, called me – I wasn’t in the office. His secretary called back in about 10 minutes, put me on hold for some minutes, then informed me that the Boss was online, so she would call back. I just told her that it wasn’t a way in making business, that it was impolite. Then, Taribis called back and threatened us with his Romanian lawyers.
End of story.
I have a question: as there are many companies members of the EU, would it be impossible making putting some pressure on the EU Parliament, in order to settle up in the European Court of Justice this scam? I am not sure it would work with our Romanians members of the EU Parliament (I am not dreaming…), but I am sure there are other EU countries where it would work.
I am back again.
I found on one blog EU’s position
Here is the link:
http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/blog/labels/ecg.html
Poor Ms; Kuneva, sh’s going to get lot of complaints…
I suspect that if you email them, they will harass you for money. Their scam depends on you reacting to their threats and contacting them. If you contact them (even to remove your company from their database) they:-
a) know you’re alive
b) know you’ve got their letter
c) know you’re worried
They are then half way to getting money out of you.
Don’t give them anything to get started on! They will go for the people who respond.
Take note, everyone. Andrei’s comment shows exactly what happens when you contact Expo Guide about their letters:
Don’t do it, folks! Don’t contact them!
Hi again
I have just received the following email from the ‘Scammers’, you were right about them making a deal. Do you suggest I send the letter from stopecg, or just ignore them so more? :
Dear Madam,
With reference to your call of November 18, 2009 please find attached a copy of your signed order.
You placed an order with us for the publication of your company’s data as an individual advertisement in three yearly editions of Expo-Guide.
The current invoice 261587 refers to the second publication period on three ordered.
Your insertion is verifiable at the direct link:
http://www.expo-guide.com/*********
You may amplify or correct your insertion with texts, pictures, key-words if necessary.
According to the order conditions the cancellation of your order is possible only at the end of the third publication period.
We confirm herewith the cancellation of your order at its contractual end.
Nevertheless willing to get the matter resolves amicably our management offers you, exceptionally and without prejudice, the third publication period for free. If you accept this special offer after your settlement of our invoice 261587 you will have no liabilities with regard to the order 319759. No further invoices will be issued with regard to this and your order will be cancelled automatically on October 31, 2011.
We maintain this special offer for you until November 30, 2009.
Yours faithfully,
Customer Services
Expo-Guide
**********************************
Expo-Guide is a product of
Expo Guide S. de R.L. de C.V.
Apartado Postal N° 39-064
México D.F. 15621, Mexico
Oooo-eeee! With a special offer like that, how can you resist? It’s a harder bargain than I thought – they’re willing to let you off 1 payment if you pay 2. Sarah, I can’t advise you what to do in part since I’ve not been in your situation and also because I’m not a lawyer.
All I can remind you of is the facts as you know them.
1) Expo Guide is considered internationally as a scam. Your gut instinct tells you they’re a scam.
2) They intimidate all those who send back their forms signed in the hope you’ll contact them in fear
3) If you contact them, they bully harder – and eventually offer to ‘settle’
4) No-one has EVER come back here (or any of the other dozens of sites I’ve seen) and reported having been subsequently taken to court by any of these scammers. Why is that?
Hang in there. If you choose to ignore them from this point onwards, why not keep us posted as you already have done? Let other people see what will (i.e. won’t) happen when you ignore these criminals.
All the best – Sam
Hello from Paris.
It is our turn to be a victim of Expo Guide.
At least all these witnesses should help us all if we had to go on trial.
All the best to everyone
Why EXPO GUIDE ARE NOT SHY DOING THE SCAM ?
IT’S SO FUNNY WRITING A TRICKY LETTER HOPING SOMEONE NOT AWARE THEN WRITING TERMS & LEGAL BINDING IN A VERY TINY LETTERS.
IT’S CLEARLY A TRAP TO TAKE OUT OUR ENERGY OF FEAR AND HOPE WE PAY THEM IN ORDER WE WILL NOT BE DISTURBED WITH FEAR & EMBARRASE FEELING
THEY HAVE STARTED IN “NOT HONEST” WAY, SHOULD WE LET SUCH ORGANIZATION LIFE, LET SEE EG DIE !!!
Shout it out! You’re dead right
Hi all,
My second post here. I just got the call from a nice lady from Expo-Guide (she had a UK accent) politely asking me to discuss with her so as to find a way to come to an mutual agreement regarding the oustanding balance of our Expo-Guide contract.
I explained that I cancelled this contract with a registerred letter after finding out about the details. She replied that even so, there is a legally binding contract and that…. ***I interrupted (They are experts at arguing, so best not to drag the conversation) stating that we completely contest the vaidity of this contract and that our legal department would handle any claims.
I asked her to call my lawyer, which she promptly refused to do. But, she then asked to have her name given to my lawyer, which I refused to do since, as I explained to her: “we are aware of Expo-Guide’s marketing ploys and that in our minds this issue is not worthy of any further discussions”
She concluded the call by saying that “Well, it seems your mind is made up, thank you”.
The call lasted about 60 seconds
So, there you have it. Seems my file has advanced to the phone call stage and others who are in the same boat as me can expect this kind of harrasment in the near future.
The phone number was hidden. I assume it’s a long distance call from overseas, so it must cost them $$$ to call all their “customers”. No wonder she ended the call quickly when it was obvious I was on to their scam.
Mike
Great update, Mike! Thanks for that. I expect the call came from Cyprus (judging by earlier comments).
Here’s Mike’s first post (so you can work out the pattern).
It’s worth noting that these steps resulted in Expo Guide’s bogus ‘debt collectors’ calling Mike. I’m of the view that sending a letter requesting cancellation (as suggested by Jules in his excellent http://www.stopecg.org site) is actually what tells Expo Guide that you’re a ‘live’ prospect and therefore worth harrassing.
What happens to those people who receive the paper demands and simply ignore Expo Guide altogether? Let’s hear from you please.
We got scammed…. and are getting contacted by Expo Guide’s “Legal representation”, of course located in a another country. This is rediculous, as I told their rep. An unauthorized employee unknowingly signed for a “Free Listing” over a year ago and now they want us to pay up.
This is a terrible and unneccesary situation to be in and these people need to be stopped. Why should they be able to go around taking advantage of legit business just trying to make it in this economy? It shouldn’t be. If anyone has actual legal advice or experience with these scammers, let me know. Thanks a lot.
Hey Ashley, glad you made it here. I’m not a lawyer (nor is Jules over at http://www.stopecg.org or any of the other people blogging about this) but if you keep looking through all this material, you’ll notice there’s not one single post here that says “they took me to court and I was forced to pay”.
That’s all I can say – but from where I stand, it’s pretty convincing evidence. Hang in there. Would I pay? Not a f****g chance.
IM NOT ALONE!!!!
GREAT!
These guys were nailing me with legal emails!
No, you’re certainly not alone
Hope you find useful information and some reassurance here.
Hi everybody!
Today (7/12-09)I recieved my 2nd and “last legal notice” from Expo Guide, still from “Legal Department”, and the same postal adress i Mexico!!!!
The letter says:
“Dear Sir or Madam,
This is your last notice. You have a final deadline of seven (7) days to remit the outstanding amount below.
Your customer account has already been scheduled for a court recovery procedure in Sweden.”
And then there is a “credig card payment form”.
I have to pay before 04.12.2009, and it´s always like this, no one can ever follow their “rules”!!
Now it´s a differnt bank: UniCredit Banca, Italy
In the last letter from (4/11-09) it was Berliner Volksbank Eg, Germany!!! Strange!
I just wonder whitch court in Sweden they meen!
Should I laugh or cry?!!:)
…and now I´m waiting for the court?! Hmmm!!!
Sometimes I think that this must be just a yoke.
Of course – I´m NOT going to pay!!!
Liisa from Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks for coming back, Liisa – great to follow your story. So, everyone else, keep an eye on Liisa. She’s going to be in a court somewhere in Sweden in the next 7 days….NOT!!!!
Hi again, and thank´s to you Sam!
I would like to have contact with other victims in Sweden!
How is that possible?
Can I leave my e-mail to you Sam or how shall I manage?
Liisa from Stockholm, Sweden
Hi all – thanks for all the info and support. They are now in Singapore as well.
Expo Guide apparently picked information from last years inaugural ITB Asia official register (a Trade fair hosted by Messe Berlin in Singapore), and sent me the same type of “update” letter apparently targeting this year’s ITB Asia register. I don’t know if they sent this to other companies, as I have not yet seen any other posts from Singapore on any sites so far. I received the “invoice” from expo guide a week back, dated November 11.
I have the same suspicion as an earlier post, as I usually read the fine print, that the small print visible on the photocopy sent as verification, is a cut and paste job, as I have no recollection of seeing that. It would be interesting to hear if any others have this experience.
I intend to ignore the letter, and keep you posted on any further communication from them.
To add to my post:
the bank payment details an account with Barclays, Italy.
I seriously doubt that a bank like Barclays want anything to do with this scheme.
The exact details are:
Account Holder: Expo Guide S de RL de CV, Mexico D.F., Mexico
Bank: Barclays, Italy
Account number: 000078200046
Swift code: BARCITMMBKO
They give their customer service number as: +353 (1) 486 1273.
I have not tried calling or emailing them,
hope this helps
Hi Kristina, thanks for your comment! My advice would be to NOT call or email them unless you want to be ‘hooked’ on their fishing line
I think it will soon be time to have a conversation with Barclays about their customer’s account, don’t you think? When I do, I’ll record it and see what they say. I’ll start with a Tweet about it this morning, see if Barclays press office picks it up and replies…
Sure, no worries, Liisa. I’m sending you an email.
Hi everybody,
I’m also a victim of that scam, but for a double letters inviting me to check the accuracy of my contact information that they got from a trade fair I attended.
I’ve experienced all you’ve shared in this blog. I followed Jules advice, and didn’t pay anymore after my first payment (It’s terrible for me to know stopecg too late after the payment). Then I got the Legal notice last June, still ignored it.
Nothing happened after that, then by chance I know this blog and learnt more how to deal with them. Last month, they called me every morning before 9 am asking me whether I remember that I haven’t paid. I recognized the lady voice – her name is Sheena O’Hara – and didn’t give them chance to contact me. They sent again invoices along with credit card payment, and threatened me that : A renewed non-payment would draw to legal consequences in the future.
They have changed their company name, their addresses and their banks.
From : Expo-Guide is a protected trademark product of Commercial Online Manuals S de RL de CV. Mariano Escobedo #752-9, Col. Nueva Anzures, Mexico D.F. 11590, Mexico, info@expo-guide.com, RFC : IAC070522AM6
To : Expo-Guide is a protected trademark product of Expo Guide S de RL de CV., Mariano Escobedo #752-9, Col. Nueva Anzures, Mexico D.F. 11590, Mexico, info@expo-guide.com, RFC : EGU0705223M8.
From Berliner Volksbank Eg, Germany to UnCredit Bank, Italy.
They ask me to fill the credit card payment and return it via fax to : +52 (55) 26 24 26 97 or via airmail/priority mail to : EXPO GUIDE, S de R.L de C.V, Ave Horacio #340-3, Col. Chapultepec Morales, C.P. 11570 Mexico D.F. – Mexico
This time they keep their VAT number : RFC : EGU0705223M8.
They have made some tapes hiding their logo EXPO-Guide in pink colour on the envelope. And they used the Mail World Box 55 935, 102 16 Stockholm -to send some more letters to trap us.
I hope I can share some experiences of mine from this scam and learn others from all of you.
Thank you, Sam and everybody.
Lucy, many thanks for commenting. Sorry to hear you paid them the first payment, that’s guaranteed to get them hounding you day after day. It’s like a ‘green light’ for them. They know that you’re scared enough to pay so of course, they’re going to try to scare you some more.
I wish we could somehow get this out to people *before* they sign the damn forms; and if not that, then certainly before they’re bullied into paying or even calling these people on the phone. That’s the challenge. The problem is that like so many other things in life, the majority of people aren’t really interested until it happens to them.
Hi all,
I think there is now another ‘similar’ scam out there. Not sure if they are linked to the Expo Guide operators but I recently received an invoice from “Strategic Business Communications” for $2500 for a full page directory advert that they say we ordered. We ordered no such thing.
This letter is mailed from the US, and the company has a New York address. When you call, you get a recording and there is no way to speak to anyone. The invoice asks you to send a check or conduct a wire transfer.
I just wanted to make you all aware that there is possibly another directory scam going on out there and to beware.
As for Expo Guide, I am on the 3rd letter demanding payment. I don’t even open them..they go right into a file folder. I will continue to ignore.
Hello, Boryana is not alone in Bulgaria. I have the same problem. Our contract with Expo-guide is dated 29.07.2008. Up this moment I have paid nothing. After receiving the first invoice I sent letter to Expo-guide and tried to refuse they “service” (what kind service – ??). It was not enough. I received the invoice for the next year and etc. The bank details are every time different.
Two days ago an officer from Fobble –
INTERNATIONAL CREDIT MANAGEMENT – (Cyprus), called me and sent by e-mail official document. They offer me “amicable fashion” to resolve the problem – I must pay the half due amount 1181 Euro. I nave not possibility to pay and I won’t do that. I am worried because they will “take further proceedings to the company” – Is it real?
I ask you to send my e-mail – Boryana (if it is o’k).
HI Irina, I’ve emailed Boriana with your email address and copied you so you can make contact. My advice? Don’t pay and don’t be afraid. They won’t (can’t!) do anything. Keep in touch! Sam
Hi Irina! Yes, you can write me an e-mails. I’ll be happy! I’m reading the news here every day!
Hi, so pleased to have found this website!! This scam has reached South Africa. The details mirror stories above exactly. An unknown employee signed the order form etc… I have just received a phone call from a man with a British accent – company located in Cyrpus. Please advise.
I replied to the “debt collector” who contacted me informing him that I had found others who were suffering from this same annoying scheme. I thought his reply would be of interest….
Our client is well aware of this web-site and others, these could be the work of a un-happy ex-employee or someone with a grudge against the company, it only states a personal opinion of a person not even trained in legal matters. It is called a ‘blog’ entry, any-one can express their negative, or positive, opinions on these sites.
We need to inform you that our company has no knowledge of any negative court decisions against our client. As they call our client’s media project a scam or corrupt, they have certainly a copy of such a decision .
As a B2B contract, your order was received by our client, who carried out the instructions requested. The signature was inserted in the ‘legally binding’ section of the order, if members of your staff are signing such documents that is an internal matter for your management to address.
Our client is in receipt of a 3 year on-going contract and has made a very fair offer of cancelling the agreement early so long as the first and only invoice is paid.
We are trying to find a solution to this matter without any further expenses incurred by yourselves or our client.
We remain,
Yours faithfully,
Barry Walter
INTERNATIONAL CREDIT MANAGEMENT
by Fobble Services Ltd.
Tsacon Court, 4th Floor,
187A Leontiou Str.
3020 Limassol, Cyprus
P.O. Box 53397
3302 Limassol, Cyprus
Tel : +357 25 27 06 00, Fax: +357 25 27 08 89
email: bw@fobbleservices.com
HI Stephanie
Of course they’re aware of this website – my post is pretty much the only reference to Fobble International Credit Services anywhere online. Not bad for a reputable company, eh, Fobble?
Remember, this site is only one of many with long, angry lists of comments from people who feel they’ve been ripped off by them. Did I say that? Nope. They did.
To the people behind ‘Fobble’ and Expo Guide: I’m neither disgruntled, a victim or an ex-employee. Bad luck. I’m just an ordinary person who hates to see people ripping other people off. Feel free to call all the people posting comments here liars if you like, although whether that will make more of them pay you or not, who knows?
And so you see how this all works, folks? Because their ‘client’ hasn’t been caught and prosecuted it makes it alright. Sadly, I expect Barclays (and any of the other banks who’ve made money from these people) to take the same line. That’s Capitalism at it’s best, lols.
It’s so frustrating. Kudos to you for informing people Sam. As for Barry’s email – what a load of nonsense!! \A disgruntled ex-employee or person with a grudge against the company\ – if not a scam then Expo-Guide must be without doubt the worst company to work for globally – countless disgruntled ex-employees on 4 continents… Nonsense!
No worries
Expo Guide must be kicking themselves that they failed to ‘prepare’ their online presence fully. If they had, they may have been able to keep people like me and Jules and others out of the first couple of pages of Google results.
You’ve got to think of the order of things here. The sceptics (like me) will research EG thoroughly before thinking about signing something. I’ll find the truth about them no matter what they do to prepare. Then there are people who weren’t sceptical enough to start with and find themselves getting a demand letter. They hit the web searching for ‘Expo Guide’ and find this site and others because EG hasn’t muscled us out of the way.
Even if EG had done that (and World Business Guide did a more thorough job of it – go Google ‘World Business Guide’ and see) the next level of sceptic will know to add the word ‘scam’ or ‘rip off’ to their search: ‘Expo Guide scam’ or ‘Expo Guide ripoff’. This will usually start to surface the dirt. That, by the way, is why I always title my posts on these subjects ‘Expo Guide: Scam or not?….’. Notice the first three words in the title?
So my posting WILL be costing Expo Guide some money, for sure. One or two people arrive here who haven’t paid anything but were about to and find courage not to. Some have already paid something but feel encouraged by what they read and take a stand. Either way, it costs Expo Guide.
So expect them to get nasty when they think it’s costing them too much. They did with Jules Woodell (spent a couple of years issuing writs against his ISP to get his site shut down etc) but as you can see, he’s managed to keep it up and running.
Oh, and Expo Guide, I promise you that as soon as I get a single positive comment about your £1,000 a year (minimum 3 yrs) ‘service’ that people universally say they never ordered and don’t want, I’ll post it here.
Hi,
I have as Liisa got my 2nd leagl notice and it stood the exact thing as liisa letter.
“Dear Sir or Madam,
This is your last notice. You have a final deadline of seven (7) days to remit the outstanding amount below.
Your customer account has already been scheduled for a court recovery procedure in Sweden.”
And then there is a “credig card payment form”.
Liisa, I think they send them at the same time to us.
I still haven’t paid!
Sam can you give my email to Liisa so we can talk? I’m also from Stockholm!
Hi Carolina, I sent Liisa your email address. Let us know about your next “7 days”! Have a good Christmas but remember not to overdo it with your ‘credig card’
Thanks Sam,
Merry christmas to you to! Don’t let these people prevent you from enjoying the holidays!
Hi,
Thank you Sam. cam you explain the fact they change very often their name, address, bank, even their VAT number? Now they hide their trademark Expo-Guide on the envelope. I understand that some banks refuse to do the money transfer to them, so they use the credit card payment. But with credit card payment, people can ak tjheir money back from the bank if people can show to the bank the warnings at all websites of the trade fairs they got data to do scam.
Since August 2009 Svensk Handel has added their name in the warning lists as well how to react to these false invoices.
Sam, why we don’t contact their embassies in many countries to ask them what kind of business they do? They have given them the right to transfer thier clients – their victims to other company using their trademark Expo-Guide in their fine prints … like buses and trains.
Merry Christmas to all of you.
Hi Lucy
It’s clear they’re desperate people trying to suck money out of this scam before it gets so widely known that no-one will touch it; potential victims and eventually banks too. Whatever they have to do to keep the money rolling in, they’ll do – including switching to credit card payments, if that’s what’s happening. They don’t give a damn whether or not you’ll get the money back from your credit card company if/when the credit card company realises Expo Guide is a scam because they’ll STILL have the money you paid them.
Like all scams, their time is limited – the shorter we can help to make it with blogs, networking and social media the better, eh?
Merry Christmas to all of you – and even to those poor young people sitting in Cyprus ‘working’ for Expo Guide, calling people and abusing them to extort money from them. You deserve better… you just don’t know it.
(I know you’re bright enough to Google ‘Expo Guide’ on a regular basis – even though your bosses aren’t, so that little message was just for you)
Peace to everyone in 2010
We just received the Expo-Guide contact request letter. Fortunately, the letter was in English so it got passed around for a bit and gave me a chance to find this site before we sent it off.
Thanks from Kyrgyzstan!
MM, glad you found these comments – hope they helped save you some money & worry
Happy Scam-Free New Year
Hi,
I feel so much better after reading all these comments. You guess, I received their invoice today and was shocked. This time receiving bank is Barclays bank in Italy.It was good I checked Google before contacting them.
Best wishess from Norway
Hi S, glad you found us & all the comments from other people here. Personally, I would not contact them (please read my comments about how they ‘hook’ the people who respond to their threats) but you have to make up your own mind. Good luck & let us know how things go – especially if/when nothing bad happens to you
Hi All
This web page is a very good idea and we really appreciate the initiative behind.
Hopefully it will cost these “nut cases” a lot of money by preventing innocent companies from paying Expo-guides absurdly invoices.
We are in the exact same situation with Expo-guide and today we reached the point where they change tactics and “Barry Walter” from Fobble joins the party.
We are looking forward to see how much time and money they want to spend/loose before they give up, because we are not going to pay unless we lose in court, so lets see how far they want to go.
Regards
Kaare
Denmark
Hi, our company was also a victim of this Expo Guide. Last week, I received a letter from the ‘Legal Department’ demand for payment saying ‘To avoid a court recovery procedure, we urge you to remit the pending amount outlined below’. A credit card payment form is attached. Prior to that we also received an earlier letter saying that they will submit a court recovery procedure here in Thailand where our company is based.
Last year, we sent a cancellation letter to them and just yesterday got an answer saying:
‘We received your communication on 11/09/09 and we apologize for the belated reply.
The order conditions stipulating basic order duration, price, cancellation and revocation terms are clearly indicated on the order form and they directly precede the line requesting legally binding signature.’
The letterhead for both the demand for payment letter and the response to our cancellation is Expo Guide in Mexico. However, the Expo Guide logo of 1 envelope was covered with a ‘Priority Post P.O. Box 437 Emigsville PA 17318-0437 USA’ sticker. Both letters were also mailed from Manchester PA.
We’re not going to pay but am keeping these letters to compare their addresses and bank remittance because the same letter we received for our sister company is from France.
Your thoughts, please!
Hi Sheila, thanks for your comment. As you can see from all the comments before yours, what’s happening to you is standard procedure for Expo Guide. They will threaten court action in your country because this scam makes its money from those who are scared enough to pay. There is no evidence here or on any other site dealing with these scams that *anyone* has ever been taken to court.
The simplest explanation for the absence of that evidence is because it simply doesn’t happen – scammers don’t take people to court.
Hope you stay strong and don’t pay. Like many others, you’ve already made the first two mistakes: 1) you signed the form and sent it back and 2) you contacted them with a cancellation letter.
Please don’t make the third mistake of getting into direct communication with them (phone). When you do that, they naturally increase the bullying and the pressure because they know that you’re worried – therefore, in their eyes, one step closer to paying.
Kaare, go for it. How nice it would be for you to come face to face in court with the mysterious ‘Mr. Barry Walter’ from the slightly non-existent ‘debt collection’ company Fobble International whatever.
Now you *must* promise us: if you go to court and if you lose and ifyou have to pay Expo Guide a single penny, you must come back here and tell us, ok? Then I will revise all my previous advice (and eat my hat). Thanks!
Hi Kristina and all,
I also fell into the scam in 2008. Just received a call, a “legal repesentative” for Expo Guide to negotiate for me to pay 1 year to waive the other 2 years. I have requested her to send me the email as I would like to take a look what their next threat be. Is there anyone been contact via phone?
Hi Jacob, read all these comments. Loads of people have been contacted by phone. What happens is you get bullied and threatened with the intention of getting you to agree to their ‘generous’ offer of just paying one year.
Don’t pay but most importantly don’t take their calls. Nobody in these comments or on any other site with comments like these has ever reported being taken to court.
I keep saying it like a broken record, but you contacting them or responding in anyway is like you taking their bait. When you respond, you give them the green light to put their (limited) resources into bullying you, because you’re more likely to end up paying that someone who ignores them.
It’s basic, common-sense psychology applied to the business of scamming.
I too have been a victim of Expo Guide’s misleading form. I have written them five letters so far telling them that I only intended to verify my details, and requesting that they remove my name from their database, but they are not accepting that. The last communication was from their legal department threatening to take action. I have been having sleepless nights about this, and was beginning to wonder if it was my fault for being stupid enough not to read the small print before I signed the form, but it seems that a lot of other people have been duped by this.
I had resigned myself to paying them the first year’s installment, but I certainly won’t be doing so now, having read your comments.
How cool is that, Juliet – great to hear these comments have raised your spirits. Makes it all worthwhile! Remember, being scammed wasn’t your fault – hold your head up high
Hi all !
FYI, after their first letters until they threatened to bring me to court last September 2009, I now get a friendlier one in January 2010 proposing to only pay half of the full price to settle.
NO WAY !!
)
I like the idea of Marie to complaint to the host of their website via the abuse@networksolutions.com email, and I will do so anyhow, despites the fact that the info on their website in the WHOIS directory shows that they are already in trouble with network solutions for not being in line with their policies…
http://www.whois.net/whois/expo-guide.com
as it’s now getting further on my nerves, I will speak shortly with our anti-counterfeting specialist here & see how we can go after them for good !
Hi all!
Our company is bombed by correspondence from Expo-guide etc. too but nobody signed some agreement – Expo Guide simply copied our stamp and sign from agreement with another subject – BVV Brno (Fair company). Probably Expo the cooperation of persons or contacts stealing data there.
In the Czech republic Expo Guide is being prosecuted by Policie Czech Rep. Praha IV, Durychova 671/40, 142 00 Praha 4, DCI Cerny, fax: 00420 974 854 728, Act.Nr. ORIV-28153/cj-2009-001411.
If you wish to help find the real people behind the Expo… and you received email from Expo…, please don’t delete it but contact DCI Cermak – division of cybercriminality tel.: 00420 974 854 907, email:praha4skpvsik@mvcr.cz
Help us – we´ll get them!
Hello again- just a further update on my dealings with Euro Guide that may be of interest to anyone in the UK who , like me has fallen for this scam.
I arranged for a free twenty minute consultation with a solicitor today arranged by the local Citizen’s Advice Bureau. She had researched Euro Guide before I saw her, and her advice was to write them a two line letter saying that I had taken legal advice, was aware that they were operating a scam, and that any future correspondence from them or any third party acting on their behalf would be ignored in the future. Nothing more is needed. If they telephone, then refuse to take the call. Ignore all letters/threats etc.
Hold your nerve and don’t be bullied, and they will eventually go away.
I hope you find this helpful
Hi Juliet – thanks for your comment (was it you I spoke with on the phone the other day?)
Good advice. I’d be interested to know what happens when you (anyone) write them that two line letter saying you know it’s a scam. Does it actually get them off your back? Or does the fact you contacted them make them try harder? If anyone goes down that path, please report back so others can see which is best.
Personally, if you’re reassured by what you’ve read here (and assuming you haven’t already entered into some kind of correspondence with them) I wouldn’t make contact.
But I agree – hold your nerve and they WILL go away
Hi again!
In an early phase, when I´ve just got my first reminder, I followed the advice from Swedish Trade Federation – I crossed the copy of the “contract” with a line and wrote: “Reject payment due to misleading information! Swedish Trade Federation has been contacted. Complaint will be filed with the police”. Since then I´ve got new reminders every month since june.
My last letter was threatening with court if I didn´t pay, and this was in 7th of December (read my comment of 7th December). I haven’t heard from them since that day (knock on wood!!!).
I promise to keep in touch here if I hear something more. I think Sam is right when he advice us NOT to notice them, just ignore them, and DON´T PAY!!!
…and again – lots of THANK´S to Sam for this site!!
Best greetings from
Liisa in Sweden
Hi Liisa, that’s good to hear – and thank you for coming back and posting another comment.
So you see that the advice from the Swedish Trade Federation to make contact led to Expo Guide increasing their demands, not stopping them? Either way, it doesn’t matter (the only difference is the amount of harrassment you endure) – it won’t go to court.
Keep us posted, Liisa, our correspondent from Sweden!
Hi All, For some reason I decided to Google this company, after just having answered a telephone call asking to speak to our MD. We’re in Holland, I have been rund by Fobble International, a certain Elizabeth Murphy. I have no idea what she is after but described the company as an “International Credit Control COmpany” and quoted the telephone number listed above. I don’t think that I will bother asking our MD to call back!
Hello again,
this is my second post here.
I just received my 1st reminder letter from Expo Guide a couple of weeks ago. The tone is still friendly, but I have not given them any response via email or phone since the first one they sent, nor do I intend to.
I check in here regularly to keep updated, and hope to find out if anyone has any first hand experience with the so often threatened “legal action”.
Cheers
Kristina form Singapore
Hi Kristina, thanks for that. Do keep everyone informed about how it goes.
I received an anonymous, veiled threat today from someone I can only assume is from World Business Directory (another scam like Expo Guide), so it’s clear that these kinds of comments that reassure other people not to pay are hurting the scammers.
Hello Sam
Thank’s for Your Site, first time I,ve been here
and we got really confidence of all advice and all Your encourage answers.
Are in the same position as all here on the site. Have also got the “Legal notice” after five reminders but will not pay.
Thank You all
Pratoom, Sweden
Hello again,
The same experience like yours. If we don't pay, after the invoice, the reminder, first overdue payment reminder, second overdue payment reminder, the third reminder is a letter threating of legal action with a red pink letter head, letter from legal department of Expo-Guide advising that you must pay – if not they would take you to court in your country, in all 6 letters in 6 months. Then they paused a little waiting for a revolving year round to repeat again the same steps, starting with phone calls in the early morning with a very fierce voice urging and reminding that you have signed the 'contract'. First the offer of not calculating the interest in 1 year if you paid in about 10 days. If you don't pay, again invoice, reminder, overdue payment reminder – but this time the amount is double.
Here I am now with the second time 'first overdue payment reminder'. But I still do not pay. So bomb of reminders will trouble me. God knows when it really stops their letters.
Cheers
Lucy from Sweden.
Hi Lucy.. just try to hang on to the fact that nobody knows anyone who has ever been taken to court. They'll stop their letters when they know you're not going to pay. If they're calling repeatedly, it will be because they think that you're scared enough to pay. Try just hanging up as soon as they call next time.
Hi All,
Just wanted to update you on my experience with these scum bags since June 2009. I have received 3 letters from Expo Guide, not opening or responding to any. We have gotten no phone calls.
All three letters had a U.S. post office mark stamp (somewhere in Pennsylvania) and the Expo Guide return address (Mexico) was covered with a big white label. The last letter I got was this week and this time they put a big white label over their Mexico address and typed in a U.S. post office address (again, in PA). They must have thought the previous letters with their return address covered up were not getting to me.
Now that I have a U.S. address I can finally contact the U.S. Post Office and report mail fraud. Yippie! I will be doing that this week. Not sure it will do anything to make it stop but if it brings more attention to their scam then I am happy.
Let's continue to be vigilant!!
Aha! Well done, M
Thanks for posting – particularly that first paragraph. That goes a long way to demonstrating my point that if you make no response to their various postal efforts, you effectively deselect yourself from further attention.
That makes sense even in legitimate businesses; if you've only got limited resources, you'll spend them on the best-looking prospects. As far as Expo-Guide are concerned, the best prospects are the ones who write letters, email or phone because they then know a) you're alive b) you're worried and c) they can bully you more directly.
Good idea with the US Post Office fraud idea. Let us know!
Marie and Sam,
Also have been dealing with this since August 2009. Spoke with the lead attorney from the trade show publication whose documents had been plagiarized and she told me that even some of their own employees signed the forms and that Expo Guide tried to get them to pay!! I have filed both a case with the FTC and the US Post Office. Also got a letter with the “new” sticker with the PO address. The US Postal Inspection Service is aware of them and is working on it. The more complaints they have, the better.
Sam is right. After trying a few e-mails to diffuse the situation, I have just stopped replying. Also have not received any calls but will not waste my time with them. Ironically, yesterday I got a solicitation from Fair Guide (needless to say, won't be responding to it this time!)
Good for you JD – and thanks for posting
My father (80) has been caught by this scam and is receiving letters threatening bailiffs etc – he's really frightened but he doesn't have the money even if he was willing to pay. Anyone else got this far down the line? We told him just to ignore all communication – does it stop eventually?
Fiona, have emailed you privately. Try not to worry. People behind scams don't tend to take people to court.
We fell for this 3 years ago with Construct Data and stupidly paid the first bill. When they sent a bill for year 2 we realised that we had missed the extremely small print about 3 years and have written and emailed several times refusing to pay as we saw all the blogs. We are now getting regular calls from ‘Giovanni’ chasing us and just ignore him.
Today I got a letter from Expo Guide asking us to check the copy for our FREE LISTING. Look carefully at the bottom of page 2 and lo and behold ’3 year duration Eu1181 per year’
We received continuing bill from EXPOGUIDE, the last bill / letter mentioning within 14 days they will take legal action.
Are they able do it ? if they use bad local lawyer to sue us , what action should we take ?
Please help.
Hi Lian – all the evidence says no, they won’t – and can’t – take legal action against you.
Please take the time to read all these comments, view http://www.stopecg.org and read the history of this (and similar) scams. If you take the time to read all that evidence and history, and keep searching the web, you won’t find anyone who has been sued by Expo Guide They make money from people’s fear. It’s that simple.
Hi!
Just for information to all of you:
Since the 7th of december, I haven´t got any more of those scam-letters fron Expo-Guide! In the last letter they told me about their legal treatment in court, if I didn´t pay in 7 days!
I did´t, and I did of course NOT answer them! (See my comment from dec.7th)
I haven´t heard from them since then. I have since june-09 got those scam-letters every month until december -09!
I promise to tell you if someting more happends.
So keep up!
Liisa from Sweden
Way to go, Liisa. As soon as they know you’re not going to pay, they move on to someone who is more likely to. Easy money is what they’re looking for (of course). So, new people – if you’re reading this Lisa’s story shows that THEY CAN’T AND DON’T TAKE YOU TO COURT WHEN YOU IGNORE THEIR LETTERS.
Dear All
I have also been sucked into this scam. They used our local exibitors name as a reference saying that we have published with them for free. This is true however like many others I did not read the fine print. The local exibitor has also advised not to pay and that they are aware of the scam.
I have received my legal notice.
Please keep posting as we need as much info as possible.
Thanks
Velicia
Western Australia
We participated at Ambiente Fair, Germany in 2007, and subsequent to that have been receiving correspondence from http://www.expo-guide.com.
I received another update form in 2009 and in October, I decided to fill it out, thinking that it was just to update our details for Ambiente.I was totally unaware that there were going to be any charges, and so I signed the form and posted it off. In January I recieved an invoice, which was a total surprise.
Since I am an honest person, I felt I should contact them and I informed them that I thought it was to update details for Ambiente Show directory and that I was unaware of any charges. They have replied to me, and in a second email to them I informed them again that I was not aware of any charges when I signed the form and that I could not afford to pay the amount of $1571 per year. They replied with an offer to either give me a discount of 30% or reduce term to 2 years at $1571 per year. I replied that I would take this into consideration and get back to them. I also asked without committing myself, whether they would consider reducing contract term further. To which they have agreed, if I pay the amount by a certain date.
After reading through a number of internet articles, I now see that this is a scam, and intend to ignore them.
Thanks for the update
I used to get phone calls untill I tried the following proven method to stop unwanted callers.
” You get a very loud whisle and when the call you burst there ear drums (or nearly) they NEVER ring back.
Marie and Sam,
This morning I received a letter from Expo Guide. The Orange Expo guide logo is covered by a blank sheet, with the return box address on it. This time it is :
Expo Guide
PO Box 466
Emigsville PA 17318
And the stamp is :
INT’L SURFACE
AIR LIFT
US Postage Paid
Permit 00700
Manchester PA
and by side of the stamp there is some barcode.
Lucy.
Hello Everyone,
I have posted earlier and after a long time of not receiving any letters from them, I thought they gave up on me. Recently I have received another letter that reads
This is followed by a one page invoice and another page which is a credit card payment form. They have threatened to take me to court here in Hong Kong already but nothing has happened. Touch wood I have not received any phone calls but if that ever happens I like the idea of taking a whistle idea that was posted! Hahaha!
Well of course I will continue to not pay and I have talked to a friend of mine who is a lawyer and she said they def cannot do anything legally. So everyone out there, DO NOT PAY!
I am also planning to join the Facebook group “Stop Expo-Guide Group”. Best of luck to everyone. Oh yeah, the payment account they have printed on the invoice is based in Slovakia. Take care everyone.
After 6 months of silence we have got an invoice for the second year from Expo Guide. 6 months ago they threatened court action, which, of course, came to nothing. Things then went quiet. Now they are trying to get 2 years worth of money.
Now the bank is in Slovakia, next to the Czech Republic where they were raided by guys in black carrying machine guns. I have written to the bank.
Regards
Tony
Welcome back, Suraj. They WILL give up eventually lols. Hope everything else (everything other than Expo Guide) is going well
Hello again, Tony. Thanks for the comment. Folks – Tony and Suraj have posted here before. Neither of them have been taken to any court, despite the threats. They’re living, breathing proof that these people have no legitimacy (and therefore no power) to take anyone to court. The crooks behind this are just moving their operations time and time again to keep up their demands and their – sadly, still profitable – business of bullying and extortion.
Hello all!
The scammers must be hard up for money now because while I am still receiving “invoices” from Expo Guide, I received another phony directory form from Fair Guide/Construct Data. (Which actually helps prove that the original forms I received from Expo Guide did NOT include anything other than content regarding a “free listing”). As for Fair Guide’s new mailing, I immediately notified the actual conference that they used in the letter. I still have not responded to any of their letters however they are getting more persistent with the mailings…but, they have yet to call me, so I suppose that is a good sign. As far as I am concerned they are just wasting money on postage.
Lastly, I wanted to send over the link to submit a fraud report to the US Postal Inspection Service – https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx.
Please, please, please take a moment to do this. The USPS already has wind of it but we need them to go the extra length and help put a stop to it and find out who exactly is behind this post office box.
Hi Sam,
We are based in Hong Kong (like Surag) and and around two years received demanding letters and eventually a phone call from a “debt collector”. I told him in no uncertain terms, that their operation was a scam and that I would sue them if they persisted in sending demand notes and threatening phone calls – we have never had any futher correspondence or phone calls from them. So anybody being threatened with legal action -relax and forget it
Agreed Bernard! They – like all smart sales people – give up the minute they sense you’re not going to ‘buy’
Well done for setting up this page and blog. I stupidly signed the form thinking it was a free listing. It’s neatly laid out with trendy typeface so it looks genuine. Then of course the invoice comes weeks after the ‘cancellation period’ has elapsed. I immediately googled them and found the http://stopecg.org/ site. I emailed expo-guide and asked them to remove me from their site. I explained the form was deliberately misleading and that I had signed in error. I then used the letter of complaint from the http://stopecg.org/ site. All of which has been dismissed by Expo Guide. They have sent numerous reminders and today a legal threat from their legal department. I am ignoring it. I won’t pay them and in the highly unlikely instance that this goes to court will gladly stand up and contest it.
Way to go, Joe. I think rule #1 is ‘don’t make any contact with them at all’. You will have to ride out the threats, but they will eventually stop because they know they aren’t going to be successful in bullying you into paying.
I wish we could get that one piece of advice out there BEFORE people start writing letters back, emailing, phoning or whatever.
As soon as you make contact, you qualify yourself for further attention.
Thanks for posting, and drop by and tell us what doesn’t happen next
Good morning,
I’m a victim too.I fooly signed last year their paper that I thought it was free of charge.The worst thing is that when I received their invoice and told my boss that I made the mistake by signing a fake paper, I had to pay them from my salary. I so I did…I’m so sad and so disapointed from all this situation..I asked for cancelation and I received an email response saying that we can not make a cancelation after signing…I now understand that all this is a fraud but if they continue…???I don’t want to pay again.Somebody should stop them..Did anyone inform interpol?
Mary, I’m so sorry to hear you paid these people with your own money.
That, folks, is why I post about Expo Guide and other scams on this site.
Mary, because you’ve paid once you are now TOP of their bullying list. Please, please read all of the comments here and follow all the links to reassure yourself that you must not pay any more – and that these people CANNOT take you to court because they are not operating legally.
Thank you very much Sam,
I’m not going to pay anymore!!And if they continue to bother my company, I will just ignore them.I hope one day they will wind up in jail..They deserve it!
I emailed them this in response to my latest ‘deadline has passed we’ll now take you to court’ letter from them. May they burn for all eternity for their vile attempts to deceive innocent people.
Dear Sir,
I am in reciept of your invoice 261860 dated 04/11/09 and I must apolgise for the late payment of this invoice.
We have been so busy with orders, no doubt generated by the advertising in your excellent publication!
As a result of this success I’d like to pay you double, no cancel that, treble the amount that you have invoiced me for if that’s okay?
Can you send me BACS details urgently so that I can send you all of the money in my account at once. I’d like to clear my savings account aswell and send that to you.
The money in my kids money boxes is mainly lose change, but I’m sure you’ll be happy to accept that aswell won’t you? I’ll bag it up and send it over asap.
Thinking about it, I also have a considerable quantity of real estate in the UK and Europe, perhaps I can send you the deeds for some of that aswell?
You guys have been so great, it’s the least that I can do.
Alternatively, perhaps you’d like to stick your head up your mother’s arsehole and fuck off?
All the best
James
Lols – James, I just checked with our legal department and it seems that your offer to pay three times the amount constitutes a legally binding contract. Hah hahh hahah just joking.
I’m sure they will appreciate your offers. I note, however, you stopped short of offering your wife and children. Are you sure you’re not holding back?
In questo momento mi è arrivato via e-mail (con conferma di lettura che non ho inviato) il primo sollecito di pagamento che dice:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to you in reference to your outstanding invoice.
I have to inform you that W.C.D World Company Directory Ltd.
can not and will not cancel your contract.
Due to your s…ignature on the contract, you verified our Terms and
Conditions, therefore your are obligated to pay the outstanding invoice.
This will be the final notice before your file will be send to our legal
department, who will then submit your file to the Arbitration Court of
the Czech Republik.
By signing the contract, you agreed to this legal procedure!
This legal procedure will add more legal fees to your account.
It would be in your best interest to pay your outstanding invoice
immediately.
Please submit your payment within 3 days.
Thank you,
Best regards
Susanna Corazon
Account Manager
World Company Directory
Angelo
Volevo chiedere, se qualcuno lo sa, qual’è il passo che faranno dopo. Io sono stato frecato il 29 gennaio 2010, è arrivata alla mia e-mail la loro truffa e da cretino ho firmato con il nome di mia moglie (lei è la titolare) e rispedita, dopo 8 giorni è arrivata una loro e-mail con fattura e oggi il sollecito.
Saluti dall’Italia, Angelo
Hi Angelo – Google translates your comment as:
“I wanted to ask if anyone knows, what is the step that will later. I was frec January 29, 2010, came to my e-mail their scam and stupid I signed with the name of my wife (she is the owner) and returned after 8 days to arrive with their e-mail bill and now the reminder”
The answer is NOTHING will happen. They will just keep sending you letters or phoning. But they have never taken anyone here to court.
Good luck
La risposta è: non succederà nulla. Essi è sufficiente inviare lettere o telefonando voi. Ma non hanno mai preso nessuno qui in tribunale.
Buona fortuna
(dice Google)
Expo guide are a part of a much bigger outfit dedicated to these scams in all sorts of forms. Today we had 2 emails about guides
WORLD COMPANY REGISTER
P.O. BOX 3079
3502 GB, UTRECHT
THE NETHERLANDS
email: register@wcr2010now.com
FAX: +31 20 203 1129
They are part of the same group and have the same confusing form.
World Business Directory
Suite 149 · Rosden House · 372 Old Street
EC1V 9AU / London · UNITED KINGDOM
“To update your company profile, please print, complete and return
this form (Updating is free of charge).”
“I WILL HAVE AN INSERTION INTO ITS DATA BASE FOR
THREE YEARS. THE PRICE PER YEAR IS GBP 980. THE SUBSCRIPTION WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY EXTENDED EVERY YEAR FOR ANOTHER YEAR, UNLESS SPECIFIC WRITTEN NOTICE IS
RECEIVED BY THE SERVICE PROVIDER OR THE SUBSCRIBER TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE EXPIRATION OF THE SUBSCRIPTION.”
Now where have I read that before.
SO….
be on the look out and don’t just think Expo Guide.
Tony
Thanks Tony – oh, yes, they sure do come in all shapes and sizes… World Business Directory, World Company Register, World Business Guide, European City Guide, Expo Guide, Fair Guide, The European Medical Directory are JUST A FEW. There are plenty more and probably all come back to the same few people who know the game inside out.
Hi, same as all the others we signed up and started getting the invoices. I have mailed them to say that I have taken legal advice which strongly advices that no contract exists under the Misrepresentation Act 1967 and that I will not reply to any further communication. If they wish to recover the sum they should take me to court.
They’ve mailed to say that Mexican law applies as stated in the contract and that money is owing.
I will not be replying to any further communication although, quite frankly, I won’t mind if they call me as I would like the opportunity to let them know what i think of them in person.
Gareth
These guys (or criminals) have landed into India as well.
I guess I am the latest victim.
Just received a letter from their legal department saying my customer account is already been scheduled for a court recovery procedure in India.
I was quite worried and sent them an email asking for settlement. Simultaneously started surfing net to understand court recovery procedure in India.
Somehow I just started to surf about this company Expo-Guide and got all these articles from fellow victims.
I am immensely thankful to all those who have contributed in this forum. I am feeling immensely relieved now and am just not going to make them richer by another USD 1691.66 (1571 [service charges] + 120.66 [interest]). Just had a narrow escape.
Meanwhile, any suggestions for me???
Hi Asheesh – good for you! The only suggestion I have is keep on NOT paying
Good luck. Nobody here so far has reported being taken to court by Expo Guide. That means one thing to me: that they can’t and won’t take you to court.
Hello everyone,
I got a second letter this year (I posted on March 18th that I got my first letter of the year after not receiving any for some time). The letter I received a day or two ago is the same as the last one. What’s interesting is that last year they also added interest and fees for delay but in this new invoice there is no interest or fees. So they clearly don’t have a professional accountant on board!
I tried to join the “Stop Expo-Guide Group” but it does not seem to be on Facebook anymore.
Best of luck to everyone and I will keep posting when I receive letters. I think I’m going to put pressure on the Mexican consulate here in Hong Kong to do something.
Take care,
Suraj
Hi Suraj. It’s funny ain’t it – you can get Facebook to take down a group like that but you can’t stop them profiting from exploitative scam advertising targeting vulnerable, uncritical young people… wonder why?
Thanks for commenting. Clearly, the economics of bullying pays for stamps, envelopes and nasty phone calls.
Dear Sirs from Japan,
I have problem with the Expo guide since 2008. However, fortunately, with UFI Information, I realized that this is scam and do not pay any money at all at the moment.
But today, it seems that they move to the next stage.
I receive below e-mail today.
could you please advice me whether I should reply the e-mail or not?
**********************************************
Dear Yuko,
I refer to my e-mail dated 06.04..2010 and the documentation regarding your order for advertising with our client Expo Guide.
Kindly be informed that as long as your company’s case file is with us our client supports increasing costs day by day and they can ask us to send them back the file at any time. While the file is still with us you have the possibility to cancel the order if you wish so.
Please let me know if you would like to continue your advertising into the next year or you would like to cancel the contract.
Given your position in a respectable company like “MY COMPANY NAME was here “, I would like to believe that I will receive an answer from your side.
Yours sincerely,
Damian MoldovanSenior Credit ManagerINTERNATIONAL CREDIT ASSESSMENT AGENCY
by ICAA Ltd.
Tsacon Court, 4th Floor,
187A Leontiou Str.
3020 Limassol, Cyprus
P.O. Box 53397
3302 Limassol, Cyprus
Tel : +357 25 27 06 66, Fax: +357 25 27 07 77
email: dm@icaacy.com
******************************************************
Before receiving this e-mail, I received the warning e-mail that I need to pay to Expo guide.
I think the above e-mail is threating me..
I think I should not reply this e-mail though, I would like to hear your advice.
Thank you
Hi everyone,
Like Tony Harding above, we’ve heard nothing for a few months and out of the blue, out pops an invoice for the second year(!). This is getting very boring but I guess we’ll just have a repeat of last year ending in letters threatening legal action! YAWN……..
Yuko, you’re right – the above email is threatening. That’s how they make money.
There is no evidence than anyone has ever been take to any court by these people so on that basis, my advice would be to completely ignore them from now on. They’ve changed the name of their fake ‘collections agency’ from ‘Fobble International’ to ‘International Credit Assessment Agency’ to stop people Googling ‘Fobble’ and finding posts like this. Too bad, they’ll now find these comments
Look at it this way; if a legal company WAS owed money by so many people, we would find evidence of a) the existence of that legal company and b) evidence of judgments in courts around the world in their favour. There is no such evidence.
I can’t offer you legal advice and, since I haven’t made the mistake of signing this kind of form, I also don’t know what it’s like to be in your position. All I can say is read all the comments here carefully, follow the links for more information – and keep looking on Google.
Janna – I do believe you’ve spotted the pattern YAWWWWWNNNN..
Hi Kristina,
I’m glad I found your post because I’m a victim from Singapore as well. Up till now, I’ve received the various mails demanding payment including a letter from their legal department stating that “my customer account is already been scheduled for a court recovery procedure in Singapore”.
I haven’t paid a cent but shortly after receiving their first invoice I sent them an email clarifying that the reply to them was done in error. They replied this mail with the usual legally binding blah blah.
Would be great if we could talk and share experiences. Have you received any calls or had further contact with them?
Rachel from Singapore
Hi Guys,
Great to find another active bunch. The Stop EU Business Services/International Directories facebook group is still running.
They manage the World Businessdirectory and World Business Guide Scams but the info/experiences are very similar. It is owned by Jules and managed by myself
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=55011156703
Knowledge is power. The more people that are aware of these scams, the less people will fall for it. I’ve posted a back link on the group.
Hi Grant – thanks for the comment. I’m not on Facebook (hate it!) but trust that people will go there and make contact with you. Keep up the good work
Hallo, we have the same problem in Sweden. My ungeraged son sign their “contract” and now they are sending us a Legal notice with a warning about court i Sweden. It is so sad and take so much energy to convince Expo-Guide to stop this.
Anita Setterberg!
I´m also a victim in Sweden, and I have posted several times here about it.
I think you can contact me through Sam here, if you want to.
Liisa in Stockholm (haven´t still heard about them since 7th of december 2009).
Hi all of you,
Does anyone know what comes next after they send the “Legal notice” from their Legal department saying “Your customer account has already been scheduled for a court recovery procedure in COUNTRY ABC”?
I received this “last notice” from them on 05.03 and did not pay and am wondering what’s going to come up next.
Looking forward to hear from anyone with experience to share.
Rachel from Singapore
Hi Rachel. As far as I know, nothing happens when you don’t pay – apart from maybe some more threatening letters and/or calls. In all the time that people have been commenting here and other sites, I’ve never heard of anyone who has received a ‘court recovery in your country’ letter and actually gone to court in their own (or anybody elses’) country.
The overwhelming evidence is that NOTHING HAPPENS because this is a criminal scam. I understand a bit of you is scared – that, by the way, is exactly how the scam works: it preys on that part of you that is scared. But please consider the evidence carefully.
I keep saying: if someone – just ONE – person has evidence of actually being taken to court by these people, PLEASE comment here.
The fact that no-one does continues to demonstrate to me that Expo Guide and all these scams don’t take people to court because they simply can’t because they’re committing fraud and a court would prosecute THEM, not you!
after ignoring the listing letters , i finally filled one and posted in with the stamp-free envelop.
i’m receiving now invoice reminder letters and have a feeling it’s a scam.
by going through the websites, it’s certain that EXPO-GUIDE is playing psychological game.
i will go on throwing their letters into the recycling bins and enjoy sun, sea, sand and s…
big hugs from Hong Kong
Good for you stingray
Don’t forget to come back and tell us all about when they take you to court (as if)
Greetings from Amsterdam…and yes I received a letter from Expo Guide as well today. Luckily we were already aware of the fact that these people are scammers, so no problems here.
However, I would like to tell everybody who did fall for it: hang in there! Don’t pay them!!
Hello Sam,
Thanks a lot for what you do about this problem, you’re right,we have to talk about this stupid way of proceed, all around us, communication is a good weapon!
We received the same in France !! My Head didn’t sign the paper…. but he wants me to update and fullfill our datas on the Expo-Guide’s web-site as he red that is free… do you think it’s a bad thing ? I fear the ony result could be spammed more and more… but I don’t wan’t to disobey my Boss, allthough he don’t understand very well the Web or how do the e-mails work.. He thinks that could be great.. but I’m a little bit affraid of the consequencies of a datas’ update on the Expo-guide’s line.
(In France, we have the D.G.C.C.R.F.(General Directorate for Fair Trading, Consumer Affairs and Fraud Control), who explain what to do and refuse, with legal texts, when someone had unfortunetly sign this kind of “poisonned-offers” there : http://www.dgccrf.bercy.gouv.fr/profil_entreprises/annuaires_prof.htm )
Tell your boss “No!”
You are right, the only result will be more threatening letters. But on the positive side, even if you get those letters, Expo Guide won’t ever take you to court so there’s nothing to worry about. Good luck convincing your boss not to sign the ‘insertion form’!
Dear All,
My sister has also been sucked into this scam. We have absolutely no intention of paying. Thank you all for support,
Regards,
Robert, Slovenia
I also had make the mistake to sign the form. It was together with the exposition we participated and we tought it was a paper from them.
so far I never paid and did not make any response what so ever.
I have received no the legal threat.
I’m doubting to send over any letter because then they see you’re alive.
Can you advise wehter I should send the letter to protest the contract or not?
Hi Veronique,
I’m at the ‘Demand for payment from Legal Department stage’ now. As most otehrs have said really the best thing to do is just ignore, ignore and ignore again. Eventually they should give up, it costs them for every letter they send you.
Remember no-one has ever heard of a legal action being brought (let alone a sucessful one).
Gareth
Hi All, Many thanks for starting this thread and relieving a lot of worried people, myself included, I was thinking of looking for a cheap pay off deal with them to get them off my back. Now I am completely happy just to bin their threats and never worry about it again!
Tom, UK
Good to hear Tom
don’t forget to share your experiences of what happens (or more to the point, doesn’t happen) next to reassure others who come here in the same situation as you. Good luck and look forward to hearing from you.
Well put, thanks for your comment Gareth
We get these all the time in work – they truely are relentless. I keep highlighting the cost (€1181) and the duration of payments (3 years) pop it back in the pre- paid envelope and send it back to them. It didn’t cost me anything but it cost them twice on post!
Mary
Hi All, I also had make the mistake to sign the form on behalf of my company. On may 18th i’ve received demand for payment from the expo guide legal department.I’am very scared to tell my boss about this matter. Could somebody explain to me what will hapen next? I am very scared right now.
Hi Nora. Welcome! First thing you’ll notice is that you’re not alone here – hundreds of other people have been tricked just as you have. These scammers depend on the fear and shame that you’re now feeling and your worry about what your boss will think of you – so that you’ll pay them out of your own money.
Don’t do it! Sit down with your boss with a computer and show him this post and Jules Woodell’s site at http://www.stopecg.org (which deals with this and similar scams). Get him to read carefully to see that nothing will happen by not paying.
You signed the form thinking you were helping to market your business, right? I’m sure your boss will understand that. Bringing this to your boss’s attention might be uncomfortable for a moment, but being honest with him and getting his support in ignoring these criminals is the single most important thing you can do to help put them out of business.
If I helps, your boss is welcome to email me. Good luck.
Dear Nora,
I can tell you what will happen after that, as I had such experience.
They will threaten us with alot of things that so-called legal action, legal department notice, but they prefer to receive money rather than pay for legal procedures through their victims.
After the final notice, they will wait for the next year to claim again the payment of the 2nd, 3rd year.
Be calm. Read carefully other comments and you will stand again on your feet. Ignore them, it’s the best thing I can share with you, it’s also what I have extracted from comments of this blog. Thank you Sam and all.
Lucy.
Great news, Lucy – and good to hear from you again. There you go, folks. Hard evidence that NOTHING HAPPENS when you don’t pay.
But, as the evidence in these comments already shows, some people are ashamed or afraid enough to pay. And that’s what these criminals trade on.
I did a check the other day: I went to the top dozen Government, private and public sector fraud prevention / consumer protection bodies and searched for ‘Expo Guide’ and ‘World Business Directory’ – just 2 of the many variants of this scam.
Not a single one came back with any information. How can this be?
Lucy, your evidence will help save many people from losing money and sleep over this, thank you.
Hello Everyone,
Just got another letter today titled “Second overdue payment reminder”. I’m being charged for by first and second year false “subsciption” plus interest. The total amount is USD 3,243.77.
I love the idea of mailing it back to them with their postage paid envelope, but I didn’t get a postage paid envelope with mine. All I got was the reminder invoice and a form. I would love to mail them back some of my thoughts free of charge!
I am based in Hong Kong and just writing to let everyone know that I’m not being a cent to these people!
Best of luck to everyone,
Suraj
Hi Suraj, good to hear from you again. Great that you’re not paying. Do let us know what (DOESN’T) happen next
I received the letter and signed it. Stupid me. I have already received the invoice. Send them back and asked for determination of contract, they send me back that is was too late. What’s next?
I’m not very scared, but still…
Hi,
I have just recieved an invoice from Expo Guide for £1181 euros payable to a bank in Slovakia for Expo Guide in Mexico.
I thought it was a free entry in Grand Desighns Live listings (which we attended); I altered the mistakes to our details and sighned it at the bottom where the date should be not where the legally binding signature should be, I thought it was from Media 10 updating their listings.
I have phoned Buisness Debt line who told me it is a scam and directed me to your blog.
I intend to reply to nothing they send and will not pay them anything, they cant scare me, perhaps they would like to apply to have me extridited to Mexico so I could spend a few days on the beach.
I’m with Janice. I could use a few days at the beach myself! I’ve been receiving invoices from these “people” for over two years now. I responded to the first telling them it was an error and to please reverse the charges. Of course they didn’t. I spoke to our accounts payable department who advised me to ignore them and that’s what I’ve done.
When I received their “legal action” threat letter today (dated 5/21/10, demanding payment by 6/1/10 and today’s date is 6/7/10) I decided to look them up on the internet. Glad I did. I will continue to ignore them till they go away.
I hope they do call me. I’d love to “have a chat” with these folks!
My bill is now $3,280.20 USD!
Hi
Ditto to all the above – what a prat i am! (Expo scam)
Apart from ignoring them COMPLETELY maybe we should start a campaign to email the organisations/shows that we all attend to get them to include a letter of warning with their contracts?? It might help to prevent people from signing in the first place!
Thank you to you all for all the advice – i WAS very worried and now feel very relieved.
x
I too made the mistake of signing the form, got the invoice and emailed the company (Mexico) and told them I wasnt interested. I received a letter from them stating that I could not cancel the contract that was back in 2008. Today I actually got a phone call from a British sounding women (didnt get her name) and she said she was a Mediator for Expo Guide and wants to know how they can help to stop the letters coming from them. She said they were a ligitimate company (after I told her to google the company as they were a scam) and I told her to stick the invoice up her ass. So has anybody else received a phone call like that one? Please advise.
Hi – ‘mediator for Expo Guide?’ – that’s a nice twist. What lengths these people will go to, eh? Still – if she can ‘persuade’ just one person to cough up 1100 euros in a single day, then she’ll have earned her keep. They’ll do anything to increase the percentage of people who pay. No surprise.
I like your response!
Thanks Sam very very much!!!!
Keep up the amazing work by having this site!!!!
I have refused (in writing via registered post) to pay the expo guide for the past 2 years and at the same time requested cancellation because the guide is not fulfilling any useful purpose. Threats of legal action go away and new invoices appear followed by overdue notices. I have previously responded, but having read this site have decided not to respond at all. Thanks for everyone’s useful info.
Claire
UK
ALLELLUIA!!!!
people…i m so glad i run into this site
i m only sorry i didnt made any googling when i signed up the famouse form of expo-guide in 2008:(
now i m in the fase of receiving phone calls (in june 2010) from an “international credit assesment agency” located in cyprus. they told me their client would generously cancel my “contract” if i just pay for a 1 year submission (1181€!!!!!…for just writing my name in a web site!!!!!). i was actually going to do so…then..i read carfully again the cancelation agreement they send me (via email and fax) and guess what…another fraud
they write “upon receipt of payment the order with number 317460 shall be cancelled immediatly and mr…. will receive no fyrther invoices or reminders in connection with the said order etc etc”
only that the so called order number is not even the same with the contract number they claim i have signed for back in 2008!!!!!
oooo…how i wish they take me to court!!!!
people…dont give up!!!!
after reading more in here…i got one conclusion…NO PAY SCAMS!!!
thanks everybody!!!!
Hi,
I’m also a victim of Expo Guide, I’d reported my case to our trade association.
I´m not forgotten!
Todag i recieved att new invoice with a new sum: EUR 2.362!
I have´nt heard anything since 7th of december 2009, when they thret me with court if I didn´t pay.
With this invoice today, is also a letter:
“A renewed non-payment would draw to legal consequenses in the future.”
And then they say:
“Should there be changes in your company data in the meantime, kindly inform our Customer Services accordingly, using the stated contact details in our letterhead. Eventual changes will be undertaken on our side without any cost.”
Splendid!!!!
They want me to pay no later than 23.06.10 and there is also a new bank in Italy this time: UniCredit Banca, Italy!
OF COURSE I WILL NOT PAY!
Blessings from Liisa in Stockholm
Liiiiiiiiiii-iiiiisa!
Good for you, keep on collecting those ‘legal consequences’ – and thanks for visiting again.
Good to hear from you! Wow. More legal consequences upon consequences. Sounds terrible
S
Hi,
I received this and read the fine print first. Upon my web search I found this forum. I will happily return the envelope – empty. They get to pay the postage. Maybe that should be what everyone does.
Pwalker
Hi P
Fact: when they just send to you, they don’t know if a) you’re alive b) still at the same address
Fact: when you send back empty envelope (or anything including letter saying “No, I’m not going to pay etc”) a) they know you’re alive b) they know you got their demand
Now, if you’re them, who are you going to spend your energy bullying: the person who replies or the person who is silent?
Think about it
That’s why I advise making no reply whatsoever.
Hi,
The great part about sending the envelope back empty, is that their is no unique, identifiable information about the replier on the return envelope.
The most they will know is the country, if it is stamped at the post office. They get to pay the return postage and I can tell you that international business reply mail won’t be cheap for them from any country outside of Germany.
Pwalker
I’m about to have my bathroom redecorated… what does this have to do with Expo Guide?
Well, I couldn’t decide which colour tiles to use, so using the free post envelope they kindly provided I wrote back to them explaining that funds were a little tight right now but I would truly value their opinion as to which tile sample (enclosed) they prefer.
Being a creature of a rather indecisive nature I feel it may take quite some time until I reach my decision, which unfortunately for Expo Guide they will just have to endure with good grace
Stephen, that’s a good idea. I like it – especially since the last poster pointed out the envelopes have no unique identifier on them.
Outrageous that the PostOffice even deals with ExpoGuide, let alone Barclays Bank (or whoever they currently use to launder their proceeds).
Now, you got me thinking: what’s the ideal flat, heavy (and preferably perishable) ‘thing’ that everyone has in their home or office they can use to send back to Expo Guide?
Maybe someone out there should manufacture something for this very purpose.
Haha the Expo-Guide, right? Guess what, I am a foreigner currently living in Mexico City and I remember that six months ago this company was searching for trilingual custom service agents through an outsourcing company here in Mexico City. I remember they had searched these before also though a newspaper ad and I almost fell for their temptating offer about a year ago or so, as the job vacant stated a juicy montly salary of 17,000 pesos which translates into 1000 Euros! That’s a huge salary in Mexico so I wouldn’t be surprised if foreigners living here fell for this offer. Of course you need to have a full command of three languages (English, French, Italian or German) and have good telephone and translation skills (or something like that…I wonder why).
Luckily I googled the company early 2010 and found many sites telling about the Expo-Guide scam. It has been a while without their tempting vacancies on Mexican job search boards but who knows when they appear again…so expats in Mexico City, if you see a job vacancy that looks a bit like the one I described above, just ignore it. I would not want to work for scammers even if they can get away with it easily in a country like Mexico! I must have come as a big surprise for the people who have signed a contract with them when they find out that their task is to threat people by phone in three languages and translate European magazines for possible new targets! Come on, you deserve better than this! If they start posting their vacancies again, I just might advise the outsourcing company that these are nasty scam artists and send them all the links I have found!
And yes, please do not pay them a penny, I’m sure they cannot do anything here or there! And they are not worth any of your attention.
Best regards from Mexico City!
Thank you, Susan – great comment.
That’s how it works, folks. 1000 Euro a month to bully people thousands of miles away by phone. Anyone who does that work should be ashamed of themselves. And they only have to get 1 payment out of a business per month to pay for their own wages, the rest is profit for Expo Guide.
Susan please tell us who the outsourcinng company is!
That’s correct, one customer service agent needs to get at least one paying victim per month and anything that comes after that is pure profit. I found some figures telling that 80% of the targets do not pay so that leaves 20% that pay because they are scared or simply fed up with their threats so of course they will continue with the scam!
This is how I found about Expo-Guide in the first place:
Two years ago, I remember it was August 2008, I bought a sunday number of a local newspaper to see the job vacancies. And there it was, a vacant by Expo-Guide where they were looking for customer service agents and advertisement inserters. The requirements were 3 years of experience in office work and full command of three languages. I cut the vacant because it looked so interesting (I do speak three languages) but I didn’t apply because I was already working at that time. Unfortunately, I do not have the piece of vacant any longer, if I had it, I’d post it somewhere so you could see it.
Then, a couple of months later they started seeking people online through two outsourcing companies so they did not put their name on the vacants but these were so similar to what they had published in the newspaper and the job location matched. Even when their requirements changed over the time, I recognized Expo-Guide behind it but still didn’t want to apply although it looked perfect, finally I could use all the languages I’ve learnt for a nice pay. Then they started looking for people with perfect German and then British or American people beacuse of their English accent. Since I’am not German, British or American neither am I native in French or Italian, I decided not to apply. The last time I saw their vacants was in late 2009 or early 2010. So all the time I knew the people behind them but I hadn’t done any research with Google so I decided to find out more about them and what did I found: Expo-Guide is a major scam all over the world! I found dozens of posts by people that had been duped into paying a big buck for nothing! I felt sorry for them as too many were scared that they actually could do something! I am not a lawyer but I do live in Mexico and I think there’s nothing these people can do. They would need to take hundreds of people to the court and it would cost them a fortune. Also, you should know that the Mexican law enforcement is full of bureaucracy and very slow. And I almost fell for Expo-Guide’s offer, I’m so happy I didn’t!
The two outsourcing companies that were involved in this are: Staff Selection (this is a local company and their website is in Spanish only) and Global Transferee (I am not sure whether they operate only in Mexico but they do have English website: http://www.globaltransferee.com/engSite/inicio.php )
So there you have it! Be on the lookout and all those who have been tricked into this: just ignore them completely, don’t send them any mails or letters. Don’t call them and if they call you, just use a loud whistle or vuvuzela if you have one!
Regards
Thanks again, Susan. 20% success rate out of those who fill in the forms and send back? That’s represents a huge amount of money. Great comment.
My business is in Hawaii and have been sucked into the scam. I thought it was from an expo we did every year in Colorado. I did finally responded to there email today after 2 years of not responding and now I am reading the posts here that say not to respond. I wish I would have googled this first. Oh well I will be sure not to respond any further.
I am so happy to read others input. Thanks for the info!!!
Regards,
Maria, sorry we didn’t get to you before you emailed – but glad you found this thread anyway. In one sense, it ultimately doesn’t matter whether you do or you don’t respond – since there’s NOTHING that Expo Guide can do to you legally in the real world. Just bear in mind how it works: the more afraid they judge you to be, the more ‘attention’ they will lavish on you
It would be interesting to see the email you sent them today (don’t post it if you’re not comfortable, though).
Re-read it and ask yourself how the nasty tri-lingual piece-of-work sitting in Expo Guide’s ‘offices’ will interpret your level of ‘bully-ability’. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much effort would you expend on you? They’re reading between the lines to find the vulnerable, scared people. Scared AND ashamed is even better. Those of you who feel SO stupid that you put your company in this mess, scared what will happen if the boss finds out you were so gullible… you guys are the ones really worth bullying. They’re like dogs: if they pick up that scent, you’ve had it!
Keep us informed how it goes, Maria – good luck and don’t give in!
It is simiiler case.I dont know how they got our email address or postal address.They started sending us their joining Form frequenly inviting us to send our details.However we thought it is a free listing like in many other guids. Since then they have been sending us letters/demand/ legal demand to pay their said invoice amount. But interestingly they never bothered to send us a copy of their so called guid to prove the point.Even I try to serch in our name in their guide.but failed.In fact they try to create fear in the mind of innocent victims.
thank you for giving us a forum to raise our voices.
HAS
Hi exactly the same update of free listing originally from the showmans show had invoice now had reminder they wont be receiving any monnies from me
hello,
i have trapped to world business guide scam last year,fisrt i was scared but after a short web serach i saw their real mission.
They have made a pause for a while then on the 2. year they started to send e-mail again.
they said that they will take us to court at the end of the 3 years of service.
really clever idea to continue threating.
just idiots,why anybody could find them?
Thanks for the informative forum. I am the CFO for a U.S. company that also fell for the scam in 2008. We were recently contacted by a collection agency located in Cyprus with “an exceptional offer for a full and final cancellation agreement for an [sic] reduced amount of USD $1,571.00, i.e. just 50% of the contractual value.”
I politely told them via e-mail we have no intention of honoring an agreement obtained through deception; however, as Sam mentioned, they are gauging my intimidation threshold & responded with a threatening e-mail with a 3-day deadline. I probably should have ignored it, but after reading these posts, I couldn’t resist telling them we refuse to participate in the Expo-Guide Scam.
Hello, I am from Hong Kong. I have the scourge of Expo-Guide too.
Thanks for Sam and everyone, after read all the coments.
I will take Sam’s advice NOT to notice them, just ignore ignore ignore ignore them, and DON´T PAY!!!
I recieved the frist invoice on 4 May 2010, and the reminder letter on 8 June 2010.
I will keep post and let everyone know my status.
Well done Tai. After all these comments, we know that Expo Guide is a global scam. For a long time, I’ve been trying to get an answer to these questions: 1) How many people a year globally return the form signed 2) What percentage of those returned forms turns into payment 3) What percentage of those who pay pay 1, 2 or more years’ fees?
If there’s someone who has worked inside this scam (as a tri-lingual caller in Mexico City for example) who can answer those three questions (even with an informed guess based on their own experience) we can have some idea of the kind of money Expo Guide have been stealing.
I have to say, simply in terms of its global scale, the length of time its been going on and what I’ve heard so far (about % of people who pay) I suspect the sums of money we’re talking about are surprisingly large.
But we need facts.
If you’ve worked for them, we’d like to hear from you.
Thanks, Tai for the amended Chinese translation which I’ve now added to the post (above). I used Google translate – so it was guaranteed to be wrong lols
Sam, Thanks, I hope a lot of chinese victims can get your advice.
NOT to notice them, just ignore them, and DON´T PAY!!!
Hello,
I used worked for expo guide for one month and it is so sad to see how this company is using Mexico to scam companies from other countries that I have a few things to say.
It is a total scam and eveybody should ignore any e-mails from this company.
They do not have a legal department, only a small group of people working as customer service reps that when it comes to scaming use an alias to say they are lawyers and that legal actions will be taken but the truth is that not one lawyer works for them, so trust me, the best thing to do is to ignore them since they just keep harassing people that seem to be scared about legal action taken agains them and they have so many people signing the form that it is still very profitable for them to keep doing this.
So once again please ignore them and understand that this is a european company, not a Mexican company, so as a Mexican want to make that clear and help honest people stop worrying about this scam, you will never see legal action taken agains your company if you just ignore them.
Hope this helps and have a good day!
Eduardo – thank you.
There you have it folks – confirmation that Expo Guide can do nothing to you.
Please publicise this to your real-world networks wherever possible
Dear Sam,
Today I got a letter from ICAA in Cyprus, a debt collector. I wonder whether Google knows that ICAA works for Expo-guide or not, since when I google international credit assessment agency, the name of debt collector for expo-guide came at first rank. This will enable people to think that it ‘s a serious matter and will pay after ICAA involvment, since people believe on selecting information through google search tools.
Can anyone tell me what happens after ICAA letter of asking money for expo-guide, what ‘s their action followed after this letter?
Hi Lucy, welcome back! I’m not sure what you mean re. the Google thing. When I Google “international credit assessment agency” I get a listing for ‘ICAA Cyprus Ltd’ half way down the page.
This listing comes up because Expo Guide people have put up a fake website for ‘ICAA Ltd’ to try to make people receiving these letters believe that such a debt collection company exists. It doesn’t.
The website, is – to my trained eye – a classic ‘dummy’. It has no depth, no credible content and no real people behind it. It only exists as a device to try to convince Expo Guide’s victims that a debt-collector will chase them. There is no debt collector; no ICAA, no Fobble International. Just trilingual expatriot kids in Mexico (and possibly also Cyprus) being paid by Expo Guide to bully people over the phone.
In answer to your question, there is no real action following any of these threats. You may or may not get more letters, calls etc – but that depends on how much contact you have made with them and how worried they think you are.
Here’s what I’ll do to annoy them: I’ll write a post titled “ICAA Ltd Cyprus” pointing people to this thread. Then, after a couple of days, when Google has indexed that page, it will appear next to ICAA’s ‘fake’ Google listing in the search results when an Expo Guide victim searches for ‘ICAA Ltd Cyprus’. That means that the worried victim will come to our thread and hopefully find reassurance.
Oh the power of the web.
I also signed the document on 20 May, 2008, thinking it was a free listing and I have received many threatening letters since. The last one was dated 14 January, 2010 for the amount of US$3,345.81 The letter said the final deadline was 7 days and the debt was already scheduled for a local court hearing Australia. I have heard nothing since.
Jeanette Martin
Hi Jeanette – good to hear, but no surprise to me. Hope everyone else takes note of your comment
BTW – nice looking website but whoever built it for you really let you down on even the most basic, 10-minute search engine optimisation!
Each of your pages needs a search-engine friendly title containing keywords relevant for that page (with copy text containing those keywords and other relevant words) else you’re not going to be found in Google.
It really annoys me how anyone can charge for web design and fail to provide that most basic and fundamental of services. If your site isn’t findable in Google for the kinds of keywords that would bring prospects to your business… then it’s little more than an online brochure for people who already know about you.
Grrr. Yet another example of ‘legal’ businesses capitalising on other peoples’ lack of knowledge.
Today I recieved a reminder – a 2nd invoice in a 2nd round with Expo Guide!
I signed in april 2009 and they have been quiet half a year since december -09 when they threatened me with court.
Nothing happened, of course!
And here we go again!
“Request payment by no later than 09.07.10″!
A small detail – the envelope wasn´t closed!!
Of course I will NOT PAY!!!
Liisa in Stockholm
Thank you SAM for this site!!!
Hi Liisa, glad hear that you’re well – and STILL not getting the chance to meet Expo Guide in court in Stockholm.
Interesting to hear they’ve stopped the pre-paid envelope – maybe a result of reading something here where people suggested sending it back to them full of useless, heavy junk? Let’s hope so.
Keep up the good work – and don’t forget to speak to your business associates in the real world about this so they can spread the word. The only protection against this scam is the free flow of information.
Hi Sam,
One more on the list
Question: the recommended http://stopecg.org/ website advises to send a letter of cancelation but in one of your comments (March 25, 2010) you advise not to contact them at all?
Frank
Hi Frank – thanks for your comment
I think that Jules’ advice on stopecg.org was probably good at the time (when he & everyone else wasn’t sure whether Expo Guide could actually do anything to anyone or not) – but I think that my analysis of how your responses ‘qualify’ you for more bullying probably overrides that. My advice is based on logic (scammers are criminals therefore can’t take people to court, plus their debt-collection agencies don’t actually exist etc), simple psychology of the scam (as I’ve outlined here many times) – plus of course the benefit of being able to observe all the comments on my site and everywhere else over time.
Whether you do or whether you don’t send them a letter, all the evidence shows that they STILL can’t do anything to you. However, my observations are that contacting them in ANY way – i.e. even sending them a letter – seems to automatically qualify you for further bullying.
My advice is this: 1) decide that you won’t pay and take some reassurance from the total lack of evidence anywhere of anyone being made to pay 2) do whatever you like after that – so long as you stick to 1)
Thanks, will keep everyone posted
Dear Sam,
I ‘ve tried to google in 2 different ways about the debt collector : ICAA Ltd., and International credit assessment agency and found out that there are different google listings, but most of all at these 2 ways, ICAA Ltd. Cyprus comes at top. Only when we search with ICAA Ltd., it comes to your warning posting.
Sam, can you do something, for the sake of all these people who have ‘ nt yet arrived to the step of being pursued by debt coolector, to help them stop thinking that they are serious company solving credit problems.
Cheers.
Hi Lucy
You’re right there are a few ways people might search. I checked tonight and found that my post is coming up on P1 for searches on the following keyphrases:
“ICAA Ltd”, “ICAA Ltd Cyprus”, “ICAA Cyprus” and “ICAA Cyprus Ltd”. That’s ok but I’ve also taken your advice and created another post with “international credit assessment agency” in the title which should show up in searches in a day or so.
[Next day: Yep, there it is in Google - above Expo Guide's fake 'ICAA' website]
I can’t do much more than that to reassure people but what I think really DOES reassure people is to read all the comments and stories from other folks who have been caught out by this scam – especially when they find that nobody ever had any legal action taken against them.
Fear is such a corrosive thing. It makes people doubt themselves; makes them half-expect a legal summons even when they know it’s a scam; when they know it’s criminal. People caught up in this can’t ever quite free themselves from a worry that somehow, these people could … get them.
The reason I keep posting about the psychology behind this is to hammer home the simplest of ideas – until people really ‘get it’.
This scam was designed never to take action against anyone. It doesn’t need to (and, of course, they couldn’t even if they wanted to). It is designed to pay a good return purely on the percentage of people who are frightened or ashamed enough to pay. Nobody at Expo Guide has ever set up to do anything more than print forms, send letters, make phone calls – because that’s all it takes. All they have to do is mail out, collect back in, send letters, wait for responses, make threatening calls, send ‘debt collection’ letters, make more calls and money appears. Simple.
A part of the psychology behind this scam is that they understand that decent, hardworking people can’t quite let go of the idea that normal rules apply – even when it’s clear that they’re being scammed by criminals. Expo Guide has no power. There is no contract. There are no debt-collectors. There are no court actions ‘in your country’. There is no ‘interest fee’ building up. There is no ‘settlement’ of one year for them to generously give you….Everything is an illusion that the scammer made up.
And of course, the final part of the psychology of this scam depends on the wider world being too afraid to point the finger at Expo Guide and say outright ‘you are scammers’. Governments won’t do it; fraud agencies won’t do it; police and trading bodies won’t do it. All that’s left is people like you and me. What Expo Guide hasn’t appreciated is the power that people (with a bit of courage and some understanding of Google and keywords) have. With a bit of thought, we’re able to put the voice of ordinary business people who have been ripped off out there for others to find and learn from. And if that saves someone some money or some worry, then it’s worth every minute spent doing it.
Dear members,
I am a victim of the Expo-Guide. We had a stand in the last year’s Book Fair in Istanbul (Turkey) as the discussion platform of the volunteer book readers (Ekin Yazin Dostlari). I explained all steps that I faced in my blog in Turkish.
I warned the director of the book fair for the next fairs. I filed Expo-Guide before the Office of the Attorney General in Istanbul for the Organized Fraud initiative.
My blog about the Expo-Guide: (in Turkish)
http://expo-guide.blogspot.com/
Regards,
Aydin Ergil
Hi Aydin, thanks for commenting. I saw your link in to this site, so have visited your blog already. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Sam. The 3. link in the right side is this site. I think this site site is very useful for the victims of those companies. Let’s continue to support other victims and to warn the potential victims. I read all postings in this site.
Thank you and good luck in our battle.
Oh yes, we got that self-addressed envelope from Germany as Expo-Guide wanted us to send our payment pronto ! We inserted a broken bathroom fixture into the envelope, with plenty of tape on the envelope to hold it in. The fixture was about 16 ounces in weight.Betcha that cost them $ in postage…..
Now, if Expo-Guide would send me a whole box prepaid postage- I could then send back a broken toilet….so they can flush all the shit they send. LOL.
Hi,
As an event organiser in the UK, I have just received an e-mail from one of our valued clients who received this “SCAM” letter.
I just want to confirm, that in no way is Expo Guide related to any of the BBC Good Food Shows, MasterChef Live or The Wine Show, so please do not sign any correspondence they send you which mentions the our show details, and we stronly advise you NOT to pay over any money in relation to our events.
Together, lets try and prevent them from “scamming” another victim!.
Angie
Angie, thanks for your comment.
The best thing you could do would be to find a way to get this some air time / coverage in the mass media.
People need to know about this BEFORE they get stung and come to Google looking to see what’s happened. In my experience the main anti-fraud / consumer rights etc bodies are completely in the dark about this huge scam and don’t seem to want to know.
It needs mainstream media attention!
*sigh* I just got caught by this one. My company did two trade shows this year, and like so many others, the boss dropped the form on my desk and asked me to bung it off. Signed it without a second thought. That’ll teach me.
Still, many thanks for maintaining this thread Sam, I’m sure you have rapidly lowered the blood pressure of countless thousands. Rest assured that I will be on here keeping you posted if this actually goes anywhere nasty.
Guess I shall go and put a call into the OFT for the sake of completeness now. Must be some way to get this out in the open.
Ta.
Peter
Thanks, Peter. Don’t panic – there’s NOTHING bad going to happen to you. My advice? Read everything here and on other sites like it, then ignore it for the rest of your natural life.
Best wishes – and do drop back here to let people who come here after you know just exactly what happens next
I have just opened my letter from ExpoGuide. It was terrifying as I was just relaxing before going to bed. It is really encouraging to hear that I am not the only person who sent back the signed form thinking they were just updating some listing info for a conference they went to last year.
However, that figure of €3543 is pretty terrifying, and I spent a good 15 minutes literally weeping and beating my chest and head.
Is anyone aware of people sending them money, or is the best known tactic to lay low and let them try it on?
I am inclined to ignore this letter completely but I don’t want anyone else in my house to find the bailiffs on the doorstep and have to deal with them while I’m out.
John, take the time to read through all these comments. If you do, you’ll be reassured that nobody, ever, got visited by anyone or taken to court.
The whole deal works on frightening you enough so you’ll contact them. They’ll read the level of your fear and ‘settle’ with a figure of whatever they think you’ll pay for peace of mind.
If they sense you’re really scared, they’ll bully you for the whole lot. If they think they’re likely to lose you, they might agree to ‘let you off’ with paying just 1/3 of it and hope you’ll jump at that.
Don’t pay them a penny! They can’t and won’t do anything to you or anyone else in your family. Their ‘debt collection’ agencies are fake and any calls you get from them are from Expo Guide.
Can you see that their success depends precisely on getting the kind of reaction out of people they’ve produced in you? They have nothing else to work with – but so long as people feel scared when they get the demands, the money will continue to roll in.
Dear Sam
Thank you for your site and all efforts for saving victims from scam.
I am a Korean and I was surprised that there are many victims of mislead of Expo Guide such a scam all over the world.
Of course I am one of victim. I have been ignored their notice including Legal notice(what they insist) as I can see their purpose.
Is there any victim who called from court in Europe?
Pilung
Hi Pilung, no, nobody ever reported going to court in Europe or anywhere else in the world.
It’s amazing, isn’t it, that we have so many people from so many parts of the world here. This is a global scam – and the profits must be in the tens of millions of dollars every year.
And all achieved without EVER having to do more than sending paper in the mail and following up with calls, letters and emails.
Don’t pay them, and do whatever you can to tell people in your business community in Korea to ignore Expo Guide too!
I´m also victim of Expo-guide scammers and after reading you, I´m absolutely calm..thanks for this site! 13.7. I got the last “Legal notice” from “legal department” and I´m looking forvard new letter
) I´m so sad they don´t send us prepaid envelope – I have so many things to fill it 
DD
Great site with lots of great information. The gal who did my job before I got hired apparently signed this form and I have been dealing with all the letters demanding payment. My boss knows that it is a scam, but now he is asking me to alert the Attorney General. Has anyone ever reported these guys to the AG? How would I go about doing that?
Thanks so much for your time!
Hi Cheryl, great idea. I’m in the UK so no idea of how to contact the US Attorney General. Don’t let that stop you trying! Anyone out there have any tips?
My latest demand (received this week) has a sticker placed over the Mexican address on the front of their envelope, with the address:
EXPO Guide, PO Box 466, Emigsville, PA 17318, and a US frank.
The paperwork inside still bears the Mexican address, and the bank is still the Slovakian one.
And I will continue to ignore, buoyed up by all you readers’ experiences!
Suzanne, glad to hear. Keep doing your part and letting anyone you know in business know about this so others can be saved the worry.
Happy to share all our experienced in here and great web site. Thanks to all..
Soi Hi! i this is erman from turkey. our company has received this letter and filled out the form. Luckily i have just come back from holiday and saw this envolope ready to be send away. ı grabbed it right away and wripped it off and informed all my co-ops about this fraud. since new year this is the 3rd time we have received.
Hey Sam
You are an absolute star. And indeed, my blood pressure is lowering by the minute – not from the stress, but the anger.
I’m not even sure how my involvement came about – we had someone from the company go to the Sonar expo in Barcelona and we were entered into a trade guide, so I thought it was to do with that. And when the forms came through about updating the listing, I filled it in and yada yada yada you know the rest.
I thought it was a scam and you have confirmed it. They don’t (and never did) have my bank details and they’re sending letters to the wrong address so screw ‘em. It’s just a shame I am going to have to put up with threats, letters and judging from other people here, potentially phone calls. But they ain’t getting dollar one.
I also happen to be a journalist, and following your comments about media awareness, I will take the story to some newspapers and see if I can drum up some interest.
All the best and let’s do whatever we can to bring these people out into the open and then bring them down.
Regards
Simon
Hi Simon – thanks for the comment. Very glad to hear that your blood pressure is going down
Count me in on any kind of piece to the media. We could get Jules Woodell to talk about the history of this scam and the names behind it, I could talk about the psychology behind it and the power of bloggers like me to cut into a bit of their profit.
I’ll drop you an email so we can discuss further
Hi All,
This is Gary from Hong Kong, quite some people from HK dropped into this scam yeah!
My boss has signed the free listing form back 2008. When we received the first invoice and asked for payment. I replied to them that supposed to be free listing only, and we were not going to pay and asked them to cancelled and deleted our listing. Then we received replied from them asking for money again, then I told them I replied to them already. It stopped emailed or invoicing us for couple years. Until few days ago, the guy from “Damian Moldovan, Senior Credit Manager, INTERNATIONAL CREDIT ASSESSMENT AGENCY ,by ICAA Ltd.” sent us email with attachment of our signed form, invoice and their so called “Without Prejudice ” letter.
Then I told my boss I will handle it and see what I can do. I might as well start to search the net see if something coming up and found that big “SCAM” stuff. I forward some info to my boss and told him that is SCAM no need to worry. Just today somebody called my boss cell phone and mentioned from Expo Guide. My boss and I are outside and he cannot take his call and asked him to call back. I have told my boss while not let me talking to them. I really love to talk to him and see what the trick is……” maybe I can just try to waste their long distance call as long as possible “.
Then when we got back, they sent fax to our HK office said we did not react to their previous notices concerning your long overdue account. bah. bah bah.. dead line by 13th August then further action might take by 8:43p.m… and email to me the fax by 8:47p.m. They REALLY try very hard to pursue your paying.
Then I decided to email that guy as below ( copy from the suggested email )
WELL OF COURSE NEVER INTENDED TO PAY THEM A BUCK
WELL LOOKING FORWARD TO HIS COSTLY PHONE CALL …..
Hi Sam and everyone else.
thanks very much for all the helpful stuff here.
I calmed down, took stock of the situation, read up on Expo Guide, listened to and read some good advice and then put this letter together, which I also ran past a lawyer, who said it was spot on.
Feel free to adapt and use as you need to
Dear Sirs
Invoice No. ___ dated ___
Order: ___
Customer No. ___
I have received a letter containing the above invoice from you demanding €1181 in respect of a listing for me in your internet publication EXPO GUIDE.
Upon scrutinising the photocopy of the form which I signed and which you have enclosed with the invoice, I have for the first time, seen that you have secreted in small print, a clause that seeks to tie the form’s signatory to a 3 year contract amounting to a total payment of €3543.
I did not sign this piece of paper with any understanding whatsoever that this was the case, in particular since the header of the form states that “This form is only for your correct listing as an individual advertisement entry”. Additionally, no covering letter or other information whatsoever was provided with the form to indicate to me that while, in its main body, the form purported to be concerned only with ensuring that my listing information was correct, much more importantly it also sought to contract me into an extremely expensive 3 year financial arrangement.
I was also led to believe, by its design, that the form was issued in a capacity that closely affiliated its issuer to ___, a reputable organisation with which I have had several satisfactory dealings.
I am advised that the contract you have attempted to make with me conflicts with important distance selling laws and laws of contract in the United Kingdom, and that since the design of the form which I signed was totally misleading, for the reasons I have stated above, I am not bound by its terms. I have also been in contact with ___ in respect of this communication from you and they have declared that you have no links with them and that they condemn wholeheartedly your use of their databases for the purposes to which you have sought to put them.
In this case, and since I have no desire make use of any service from EXPO GUIDE, I am notifying you that this alleged contract is invalid, null and void and that I will not be making any payments to you. Furthermore I require that you remove my listing from your website and database.
I request your acknowledgement that you will no longer be pursuing any payment from me in respect of the above invoice. I will enter into no further correspondence regarding this matter and I advise you that I will seek immediate legal representation should you again attempt to obtain payment from me.
Please also be advised that I will make your activities known to the UK Trading Standards Authorities, although I understand they are already aware of your practices.
Yours
Hi!
I will just inform you that I´ve got my third letter a “first overdue payment reminder”, since they threatend me with court in december 2009, and since they´ve been threatend me half a year with invoices and reminders since april -09!
Then they where quiet half a year, (januari – june this year) but here they go again!
Is it anybody here, who knows if they ever going to stop?
My bloodpress is low theese days, when I see thouse letters, thank´s to you Sam!
Of course I will not answer and I will NOT PAY them!
Liisa
in Stockholm, Sweden
Hey Liisa – why am I not surprise to hear you’re NOT in court being made to pay lols
Thanks for your comment. Do they ever stop? Who knows, who cares. Let them keep wasting their postage fees on you. At least you know it’s costing them some money with no hope of anything coming back from you. Hope all’s well with you – and thanks for coming back to visit.
Dear colleagues,
I am another victim of this Expo Guide fiefs. They send me invoices very often. Of course, I will not pay it. One time, I started to be really angry with this abusement so I send them by fax, a legal letter with accussation of abuse from their part, in my natal language (Czech language). But it didnt help and I still receive this stupid invoices.
THE BEST in this situation is, that I went to their website and MY COMPANY IS NOT LISTED THERE!
LET s try to discover who is owner of this nasty entreprise.
Dont pay them!
It’s the one year anniversary of when I mistakenly sent in my forms. Hadn’t received any letters or e-mails since March. Today a letter showed up. It will be ignored as this is the best advice anyone can provide. Have never received a phone call but for anyone who is worried, please relax. Don’t waste your time corresponding with them. Aside from the bullying, they probably send these letters hoping that someone in your company who pays the bills just sends a check as a matter of business.
We have had the same experience as everyone posted here. It is comforting to know that we are not alone as in the early stages of this I was genuinely worried about their demands. I did, like others, take some time to delve into their backgroud and practices and found this to be a scam. I have contacted them by registered letter to let them know that we will not be paying the invoice due to improper way they have acted and their misleading paperwork. I have also contacted the company they state they used to get our details to let them know that they are being used in this deception.
My advice to everyone is echoed above – dont worry and document everything. Respond in the ways suggested and keep your nerve. Business is hard enough at the moment without companies such as these using bullying techniques to steal significant amounts of money from reputable people.
Regards,
Marcus
We have recently been pulled into this scam. I have just had a large arguement with the woman on the phone saying to put us into court as te paperwork she has got has not actually been signed by the person they are stating it has. We have had this calls from july – November weekly for 3 years now…. Its ridiculous.
Just see what their next step is now I have told them I want them to take me to court
Hi Sam,
I’m back again.
I was wondering if we couldn’t send a petition to the DNS authority (I think that’s the name of the international authority managing all internet domain names) asking them to unregister the website name of Expoguide. Perhaps somebody in this forum could give us a more precise idea?
What if the Nigerian Scam would make a website for scamming people?
The Expoguide is more “intelectual” – you see what I mean – but it is still a SCAM. If they wouldn’t have the website name, all theso called contracts, including presenting on the web the co-ordinates of the companies should be void.
As I remember, in the contracts it was stipulated that the listing should be made on www;expo-guide.com. So, if domain name should be cancelled, the scamming company wouldn’t had fulfilled its contract engagement, as they wrote in the contract the name of the website where the so called free listings should appear.
All the best
Andrei
Andrei, that’s a good idea. If anyone out there can help this along, please do! While I don’t think people check http://www.expo-guide.com at the point of signing the form, I think that it the absence of a site at http://www.expo-guide.com when the demands start coming in perhaps would make some difference?
What’s really needed is offline awareness raising in mainstream business media – particularly aimed at people who don’t use the web that much and who don’t understand how Google works and the value (or otherwise) of listing with online directories.
Sam, it’s true, but they (EXPO) promise to publish the company who “signed the contract” on the web site; if the web site does not exist any more, that means they don’t respect the contract, do they?
Andrei
Hi again!
Today I´ve got the “Second overdue payment reminder” – the request payment no later than 11.09.2010!!!
As usual – rules that no one can follow!!
I´m in my second round whith this scammers, and they have allready thretend me with court – in december 2009 – nothing happend, just silence for half a year.
In june, this year they where back, and here we go again! They still call this worthless paper they sent in april – 09, for a “contract”!!!!!!!
I will just inform you all, and I will come back when I hear from them again.
Don´t contact them – and DONT´T PAY – just ignore them!
Thank´s to you Sam!
Liisa from Stockholm
Hello all, I am glad to find this page.
Well, I have got lots of letters with bills from Expo-Guide since 2007 until now, then I have ignored them but, I finally got a phone call from ICAA cyprus.
I talked that we did misleading, then he kindly answerd me to send documents that were the bill and “a form” we signed via Fax and email.
I sent an email to them using the exsample letter which Mr. John wrote in
August 16, 2010 at 11:36 pm on this page. well, I got a new mail from them of cource.
so I sent again telling my opinion, but they won’t stop to email me I think.
I am in far easten country and I don’t know what does VAT number mean in EU. I visited ICAA cyprus website and there is this number which is valid. Does also VAT number proof company existence officially or is there another mean?
If someone could tell me this, that would be really helpful.
Thank you.
Carnah
Carnah
I spoke on the phone with someone who worked for ‘ICAA’ who confirmed it wasn’t real; and that they left when they realised that Expo Guide was a scam. He confirmed what I suspected: that Expo Guide’s ‘debt collectors’ (of which he was one) had a success rate of about 3%.
In the 6 months he was with them, they handled 10,000 ‘cases’.
3% x 10,000 x €1000 = €300,000
They won’t stop emailing you – unless you write and complain to:
PROFECO: Procuraduria Federal del Consumidor, Av. Jose Vasconcelos
208 Col. Condesa, Del Cuauhtemoc, Mexico D.F.
Internet: http://www.profeco.gob.mx/
My contact told me that Expo Guide always dropped cases referred to this authority. Try it!
Meantime, remember, they’re scamming and they have NO power to take you to court anywhere. Good luck!
Hi!
My predecessor signed a “contract” with this company and tried to have everything deleted, but of course withour any luck.
I recived a phonecall from them explaining that we owe them money, and after checking it with the former CEO of tour company I responded to their mail with a friendly “f**k off!” which just made them send the same mail again.
After ignoring that I recived a envelope in the post today with all the papers concerning our “business” with them.
After reading this and other forums I will keep ignoring them and of course never pay them anything.
I would never think they could do anything legal to our company if we keep ignoring their threats so that will be our tactic.
Thanks for providing us with this page and enable companies to share warnings and tactict concerning these sorts of scams.
Best regards,
David Johansson
Hi Sam,
I’m from Italy but unfortunately it happened the same.
I’ve just received the first invoice and after my “surprise” I’ve started a research in web about Expo Guide and …you can imagine how many pages I found regarding this scam.
Anyway since I’m at early stage do you suggest to reply them with a polite letter or just ignore them and if they call me I’ll reply saying that every issues have to be discussed/sent by written communications?
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
Ale
Status report:
2 months down the line, and no further contact barring the initial invoice.
I am rather curious to see if it is indeed the case that communicating with them in any way confirms you for further abuse. Will keep you posted as to how my ‘wall of silence’ plan goes.
Peter
We have recieved all the letters and now getting all the calls from Cyprus.
Luckily we know some serving squaddies based in Cyprus, so we have sent a few of them around to the serviced office where nobody is..
Wilfred.. We are looking for you now
Wilfred Brown
Senior Credit Manager
INTERNATIONAL CREDIT ASSESSMENT AGENCY
by ICAA Ltd.
Tsacon Court, 4th Floor,
187A Leontiou Str.
3020 Limassol, Cyprus
Tel : +357 25 27 06 66, Fax: +357 25 27 08 81
email: wb@icaacy.com
web-site: http://www.icaacy.com
I have just had a legal notice from them. Looking back at other comments I wondered why a sticker was over the original address but I can understand why now!!!!
Also in a separate envelope they sent another form to fill in for a further 3 years as this is now the third year. Needless to say I Will not be filling this in and sending it back
Hello all, I am really happy to know that I am not alone in the fight with expo-guide. I am from Bulgaria and would like to start comunication with the other victims from my country. So Boriana and Irena, please write to me. Thanks in advance.
Hi everybody!
I used to work for Expo Guide. I was part of the customer services and I have so many things to say. First, I agree with Eduardo (comment of July 17). It is sad how people with no qualms can succeed to get money out of such a dishonest thing, involving young (and usually well prepared) people to do the dirty work and stand up for them. Believe me, 99% of the correspondents are there just because it is very hard to find a job with that salary here in Mexico. In fact they are the ones who can really see what this shit is all about, beacuse they have direct contact with the clients. So, insults, threats and hearing people yell at them are part of their routine.
Personally, something I even hated the most was to see how they even send order forms to associations (such as Red Cross, Parkinson Association, Lymphoma Association, etc) and to independent artists, farmers or people who live in poor countries and who fall for that scam.
Surprisingly, directors of big companies (such as Renault, MGM, etc), who are supposed to be aware of those things (or who have access to internet, for sure) don’t even take 5 minutes to look up Expo Guide on Google before signing. Sometimes clients sign 2 or 3 contracts!! so, they have to pay twice or thrice!!
Anyways, I think the best way to stop this is by giving the information you know to your collegues, friends and family, specially if they have their own business/company. It doesn’t matter if it’s a huge factory of a small beauty parlor.
And for all of them who are very concerned about it, please don’t be afraid. No legal actions will be taken against any of the Expo Guide’s customers. Please, don’t waste your time and money trying to find a solution or an arrangement with them.
Finally, I’d like to apologize in case I was part of the annoying messages you received from the customer services.
Regards,
Silvia.
Silvia, thanks for your comment.
I hope everybody coming here will take notice of Silvia’s experience and pass the word to friends, colleagues, trade associations to make sure nobody else pays these scammers.
I have been hit with the same scam. If someone can email me more information on what to do.
Hi Victoria
Just read through this whole thread carefully AND all the comments and you will see what you have to do – i.e. nothing. These people can do nothing to you. The only way they make money is if you believe they CAN do something and give in and pay them. Please read ALL the comments. You will see that no-one has ever been taken to court by Expo Guide. It’s a scam. Ignore it. The worst that will happen is that you will get letters and / or calls. There’s not much you can do to stop that – it’s the price you pay for returning their form in the first place. That’s as bad as it gets – unless you reach for your credit card and pay them.
Good luck
It is gone so far as Belarus. My company is on the stage of the final overdue payment reminder. the bank is always the same and it is Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena, Italy. I googled it just now and I have also found an article about scams on our belarussian news website dated november 2009. In the comments people ask to add Expo Guide into the list of the scams. So unfortunately some others in my country got trapped as well. Hopefully, more people will be attentive and do some surveys before sending any filled forms in future. Great job, Sam, thank you for keeping this site!
Anna, you’re welcome. Thank you for commenting. I hope you can help to raise awareness of this scam in your country. Good luck!
Just end last month we have received another letter from their Legal Department. Seems like they do that every Sept. We will continue to ignore them.
More threats from Cyprus, this time with their stamp on the very very last final final letter before they take legal action…
We have now put a divert on their incoming call number to a premium rate number at £10 per minute where they get annoying music on hold, hope they keep calling…
Everybody should do this and I bet they wont call for long
Well done Pei Lin – glad to hear nothing else happens
Great idea John. I like it
Last week, we also got the collect letter(without prejudice) from
Wilfred Brown
Senior Credit Manager
INTERNATIONAL CREDIT ASSESSMENT AGENCY
by ICAA Ltd.
They asked us to pay Expo-guide within 7days, otherwise, will set a lawsuite against our company. And we’ve wrote our case to PROFECO in Mexico, suggested by our government. So, now we just wait and ignored ICAA and see any good news from Mexico Government. If any other would like to ask the help from Mexican Government, here are the e-mail addresses we report our case info.,
extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx
pruizv@profeco.gob.mx
Thanks, C.Y. good luck – let us know about PROFECO and how they respond
Hi everybody!
Just an information from Sweden – today I´ve got a “final overdue payment reminder”, and this is the second round with this scamers!
…”payment no later than 09.10.2010″ – but today it´s the 18.10.2010.
If I don´t pay the will take “legal steps”.
I´m goning to ignore them even this time, and of cours I won´t pay!
It makes me glad to hear from Silvia, and her comment here is just an evidence that they really are scammers (witch we already knew), but it´s so good to hear from their dirty inside. Thank´s to Silvia!
I know, that next time they will threat me with court…for the second time!
Best wishes
Liisa
Anybody else have similar problems with Temdi.com – VERY SIMILAR to Expo-guide
Any thoughts?
ManyThanks
Hi, everybody. We are a company in Japan.
Last week and this week, ICAA Ltd. called me in 4 times and sent me some e-mails for payment instead of Expo-Guide.
His name is Damian Moldvan, Senior Credit Manager of ICAA Ltd.
According to C.Y dated October 11, 2010, C.Y also received payment request from Wilfred Brown, Senior Credit Manager of ICAA Ltd.
ICAA has a lot of senior credit managers!!!! It is very strange. Next, who is senior credit manager???
Of course, we will not pay it.
Hi,
the last letter from them was “Legal notice” in July. Today we have call, but I didn´t understand who was it, when I told that manager isn´t here, she said she will call later and finished the call.
The number was only zeros and nines (like 000099999).
Does somebody know if this is number of Expo guide ?
THX for answers…
Barb, I don’t know about the numbers – but you can expect Expo Guide to call if they’ve already threatened you with legal notice. Remember, though, it’s all a scam – they can do NOTHING to you legally or otherwise. Let your manager know what’s happened and get your manager to visit this thread (and others via Google search for Expo Guide). When your manager gets that call and they say they’re from Expo Guide or ICAA collections, just hang up.
They’ll stop when they realise that you can’t & won’t be bullied into paying them anything. The sooner you communicate that to them (either in words or by ignoring them) the better.
Either way, do not be afraid. They are powerless over you.
Sam, thanks for your answer and also this website. My manager knows about my mistake and absolutely we will not pay.
Today I recieved a reminder – 4 invoice from Expo Guide!
And I will continue to ignore them and don’t open it.
Nothing happened!
Hi Sam and Mgood,
After sending the Expo-guide scam evidence and the ICAA collect mail(ask to pay within 7days) to Profeco dated Oct. 11. Till today, we got no call or any further threatening mail from ICAA. Hopefully, Profeco does help and have done something against Expo-guide and ICAA. I will keep watching and visit this website if any update to share. Again, thanks everyone here to share info. especially Sam.
C.Y.
After a year of pestering for payment, and a period of ‘quiet’,I thought that Expo Guide had given up on me. Not a chance, new letters are now arriving every month or so, demanding payment for two year’s outstanding invoices, plus interest etc. I saw a solicitor about this last year, and the advice is to ignore it completely, and not worry. I have done this so far, and shall continue to ignore them. Don’t worry if you’ve been caught in this scam, according to legal advice in the UK, they don’t have a leg to stand on.
Hi, we are also a victim of FairGuide fraud. I signed up the contract mistakenly but did not pay them a cent. I received a letter from their legal department stating that we have to pay the amount within 7 days. My question is how do i stop making them sending us letters? I already faxed and emailed them our cancellation letter but they will never reply via email. Can anyone tell me how to make them stop?
Agreed Juliet – good for you. Keep on ignoring them and have a great day
I’m not sure where Fairguide is operating from… But if it comes out of Mexico, use the Profeco organisation to complain. Either way, just ignore their letters. You will only stop getting them when they decide you’re REALLY not going to pay. Let them waste their paper and postage, I say
Hi Guys,
We have been hit by these scammers and have been threatened with legal action after we ignored invoices.
We have written to them and explained that we will not pay as their operation is fraudulent. Unfortunately they have written back stating that we signed ‘to their terms’, bad move as you then start up a dialogue, we will now ignore them totally. I have emailed Profeco to complain and now I await the circus of phone calls and threats…Bring it on!!!
P.S If I had the money I would love to take them to court!!
Nice one Jon. Even if you had the money, you wouldn’t get them anywhere NEAR a court
Let us know about the Profeco approach – my insider contact tells me that (for reasons he didn’t explain) it’s guaranteed to frighten Expo Guide off your case…
Hello everyone
I’ve been hit too. I was so angry with myself last week when the invoice arrived and couldn’t believe I had been so stupid. Then I found this website last night, read many of the comments and other people’s experiences and all the pressure evaporated – thank you to everyone and especially Sam who replies to everyone. Don’t cave in, stand firm and stick together.
Jon, if you want a donation, let me know …
Paul, I’m pleased to hear. That’s why I posted about this in the first place – I realised that I could use this platform to pull together a bunch of peoples’ experiences in a way that over time would serve to reassure others. To hear that it’s relieved all that worry for someone is a pretty good payoff
We also were hit by them two years ago. We decided to let our retained attorneys handle it. I hope Expo Guide people or ICAA people call me. I’ll practice my Spanish and Italian and French with them then hang up. Should be fun.
Just send back the empty envelope as this costs them each time.
Dear Sam,
Thank you so much about your site, my friend also expo guide victim she filled in the form when she had exibition in thailand and after one month they sent her invoice and she’s so scare, your site make us encourage to ignore the payment to them.
Thanks
First at all I would like to thankz ” Sam ” who are open discuss about ex-po guide topic,you make me feel good that i am not alone to do the mistake.Also thankz all of your comment too.as my understand is “no need to pay for them right??”
any suggestion please advise how to do next?
regard
Right cvo – no need to pay them. They can’t – and therefore won’t – take you to any court. Just throw the letters away and hang up on the calls. Also – complain to Profeco (see earlier in comments for details).
Just another letter from “legal department”, and another threat with court! The same as last year at this time.
Probably they will follow the wellknown pattern – one letter more from “legal department” with more court-threatening – then silence half a year, and then – more invoices…!!!
Of course I will not pay these scammers – just ignore them!
I just wonder WHEN will they stop?!!!
Greetings from
Stockholm, Sweden
We have just been contacted by Anna White of ICAA. We have ignored all previous correspondence and fully intend to ignore her too. This forum has been a great help. If we do respond to her emails it will be brief “see you in court then”.
Thank you Sam, you’ve reassured us massively! We too have fallen foul of this scam. We have our 3rd Invoice reminder from European City Guide. Can you please confirm that though this particullar thread doesn’t talk specifically about ECG the advice is the same? Google did link this site as well as stopecg on a search. I have to say that we subscribe to your thoughts that you should treat them with the contempt they deserve.
THANKS AGAIN, ALL YOUR COMMENTS ARE INVALUABLE
Hi to all.
As many of you, I’ve also been scammed to reply the “order”. The bank on the invoices now is UBI Banca, Italy.
I’ve been “a fool” to writte e-mail’s to them after every payment reminder telling them that their invoice has been declained.
Today we received the second overdue payment reminder. I will not respond to any further.
Once I’ve called them, but an answering machine said to call in therir working hours
will not be doing that…
i’ve opened a page on facebook : http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beware-EXPO-Guide/112153682185319
I would like you guys to send invitations to as many friends as possible, to get those bastards to stop.
thank you,
will be comming back with further info…
best wishes,
Robert
Hi Leigh – yes, as far as I know the advice is the same for ECG (which is an older version of the scam) – although I doubt the Profeco advice would be appropriate since ECG isn’t operating out of Mexico, whereas Expo Guide is. They’re both well-documented scams and worthy of contempt, like you said.
Hi again, forgot to write that I’m from Slovenia
Just to let you know that the scam has hit Australia. Their address is now Slovakia. I have received legal threats and have written to the Fair Trading Offices and Australian Consumer Assocation to advise them of this scam. I am planning to write a registred letter asking them to stop their demands. Just want to check with users whether this is effective or it may encourage them to continue. Appreciate any advice. Thanks.
From where I stand, writing back to them to tell them that you know they’re a con gives a contradictory signal: “I know you’re a con but I’m responding to you like you’re a decent business…” which tells them “I’m scared / bothered / worried”. The result is that they keep hassling you. If you don’t believe me, try it
Here I come back again with an e-mail from Expo-Guide…
“Dear Mr. *****,
in reply to your email received on 25.10.2010, we enclose our mail of 25.08.2010 and a copy of your order 354818 for your review. We also apologize for any inconvenience which was caused by our late response.
To clarify the matter please note that there were two possibilities equally displayed in our promotion, namely to:
• Correct any errors in your free address listing on our website
OR:
• Upgrade to a full sized payable advertisement using the attached order form.
Please note that the cover letter that introduced our offer explained that free and payable options are available, with the pertinent instructions to activate each: “Should you wish to place an order for a payable insertion please use the attached order form. Modifying data free of charge can only be done online.”
The document that was signed and returned serves only to place payable advertisement orders with us. Please review the information in the “order” section directly above the legally binding signature.
A cancellation or immediate termination of your contract is now no longer possible, since the expiration of the stipulated revocation period of ten days has already passed.
We are convinced that the reasons above mentioned clarify the issue extensively, and expect your settlement for the enacted service as soon as possible.
Yours faithfully,
Expo-Guide
Michael Braun
Customer Services
*********************************************
Expo-Guide is a product of
Expo Guide S.C.
Ave Horacio # 340 – 3, Col. Chapultepec Morales
México D.F. 11570, Mexico
info@expo-guide.com
http://www.expo-guide.com
*********************************************
”
hope you guys that only check that before returning that damn form see what wait’s for you if you return it
DON’T RETURN AND DON’T CONTACT THEM IN ANY WAY!!!
Best wishes
Robert
SLOVENIA
here is another one COPY PASTE SCAM : Europe Business Guide
today I got an form to update the data… it’s free of charge but in the real small print there is 990 € / year and the contract is for 3 years.
heh, eware of that folks…
best wishes
Robert
Hi all,
I am also the victims of Expo-guide, and I come from Vietnam.
Recently, I received the First overdue payment reminder from Expo-guide in which they plus the interest for delay payment. This time, the bank is in Slovakia. Of course, I ignore them.
I want to contact with other victims from Vietnam. Is there anyone in the same boat with me?
Almost 3 years ago I mistakenly filled in their form and have had “chasers” for payment regularly. They had stopped for about 6 mths and thenI got a call today from a Debt Collection Agency, demanding payment!
I am delighted to see that I am not alone, although I am concerned! Should I let them take me to court?
John
Yeah. They never will, rest assured.
Hi Sam,
Today I received the Final overdue payment reminder from Expo-guide and they said that they will “take the legal steps after 14 days”. As your suggestion, I ignore them. What will be their next step?
Hi DTH. No, they won’t (can’t) take any legal action against you. But they will pretend they can – and they’ll send you letters & calls from people pretending to be debt collectors who will repeatedly threaten you with court recovery action in your country… etc etc. It is ALL BLUFF to bully you into paying. It is successful in around 3 – 5% of the time – which means hundreds of thousands of euro profit for them for just writing letters, using the phone and threatening people like you.
Ignore!
We have experienced an interesting twist on this that takes it from scam to fraud. I just received a letter from the International Credit Agency demanding payment for the Expo Guide listing. However, the agreement was executed three months prior to my purchase of the magazine that was listed in Expo Guide. Since they must not have gotten any satisfaction from the original owner of the publication, they added my company name to the agreement and are now approaching me. The addition of our company name is clearly tampering with the original agreement. I’m not going to bother to address this as that would simply open the door to additional harassment by them.
I am from Hong Kong and same as the others I signed the contract (or Order Form) to Expo Guide mistakenly.
Yesterday, I got a phone call from ICAA and, believe or not, I talked to this Josef guy for 1.5 hour to explain to him what had happened. (BTW, I also got the company registration certificate of EXPO-GUIDE in Mexico!)
I find myself so stupid and I believe this is a good lesson for me to read all the small words before I sign up a contract.
Thank God, I was advised by my friend about this website and I am really relieved now.
I sent them an email with the cancellation letter and told them that I had file a case to stopecg.org.
Thank you Sam!
I am from Thailand. I am also a victim. It is not from the Expo guide but the Euco Data S.A., from Switzerland. I recevied a letter from them and saying somekind like to correct my company’s information with free listing in the directory. Afterward, I received the invoices by letters and by faxes since from 2005 until now. I’d never ever answered back at all. I think it is a fraud and I won’t pay for such a thing. And just now today I received a letter that saying they have legal proceeding against me!..
I think they both are the same group. I also received a letter from the Expo guide but I experienced it so I ignored it. I knew it right away that it is a fraud since I had received the invoice and there must be a huge of people were trapped! I wonder why The Switzerland government don’t do anything with this people!
Hi Mai – thanks for that. It seems that ‘Euco Data SA’ is another version of this scam – perhaps an older one than Expo Guide. There’s some information here http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/stopecg/petition.htm – you’re right they’re probably connected. Glad to hear you knew it was fraudulent – just throw it away and remember that your comment here will help someone else to NOT pay and NOT be bullied. Thank you!
Good to hear more people finding this information reassuring. Thanks to everyone who has take the time to comment and help others to realise they’re not alone, and that NOTHING BAD happens to them when they don’t pay these scammers. Spread the word.
Sam, is there anyway that we can spread this information worldwide?
Since I am in HK and I travel a lot to other Asian countries, such as China and India. As Asians, it is always shameful to tell the others about the mistake we made and we don’t have much experience in this kind of fraud. So it is difficult for us to seek the assistance from the others. In some cases (definitely more than Western countries), we just pay it. This definitely help the growth of such companies.
If the governments can’t stop this fraud, it is necessary for us to let the world know not to fall into the trap!
I’m absolutely godsmacked for the amount of posting with regards to expoguide.
We also fell victim to Expoguide and signed “in error”. we wrote to them a few times to say they were “misleading”. A few months later they said they never received our first letter and that it was clear it was not misleading and clearly indicately it is legally binded. I refuse to pay them but I’m also anxious. imagine someone chasing u over £1000 that worths nothing. this is robbery. but should we stop engaging with them? I do not want them to keep hassling me. We have been receiving regular letters (about once a month) from them since May 2010.
JH – that’s a really good point you’re making. I wonder what the scale of the problem is in China, India, Malaysia… I wish I could do more but getting these comments to the top of Google for a search on ‘Expo Guide’ is about as much as I can do. Of course, the problem with that is people only find these comments AFTER they’ve been scammed. What we really need is someone in mainstream business media (business newspapers, TV, radio) picking this up.
Anybody have any connections / ideas?
(Goes off to LinkedIn to see if there’s anyone out there who can help..)
Hi Angela – you’re going to just have to get used to them writing / phoning.
Don’t be anxious – they can’t do ANYTHING to you.
But also don’t expect them to stop harassing you because by writing to them, you qualified yourself for more pressure. It’s a simple psychology – but it works for something like 3% – 5% of people, and that’s a lot of money.